Also this:
Why would it appear in the mindâs eye though?
Yep, thatâs a good one too.
Artimas,
Iâve never had one as a pet except by extension - the one which resides in Yodaâs tail. 
Iâve held a few in my hands.
Theyâve gotten such a bad rap because of the OT - seeds planted in the human brain⌠just like gays have because of the OT.
I dream of snakes now and again and worms too (ugh).
Enjoy his company, Artimas.
Shhhh ~~ heâs taking a nap.
I wonder what this little guy is saying to usâŚ
People donât have a negative view of gays because of the Old Testament, but because they are gay. It us something readily noticeable and stands out on itâs own.
It doesnât just become acceptable either once you jump on the athirst bandwagon either, because I doubt many of you would be too accepting of a increasingly ambitious gay suitor who doesnât get no means no, that your not that way but overcame your Christianity and arenât prejudiced, etc⌠Thatâs sending mixed signals. Prepare to be gayed.
Arc,
'Fraid Turdâs right on this one: homosexuality is inherently abhorrent at least to most straight menâsomething about the Y chromosome (maybe that falling in love with a gay dude isnât conducive to reproducing the species). But youâre right in the sense that our justifications for being homophobes, at least here in the West, trace their roots to the OT: God hates fags. â Then we can just ignore the ethical ramifications of the issue.
I donât, and Iâm the Christian here. I trace it back to nearly being raped by a college guy I thought I merely befriended when I was just around puberty. I thought I rode to his family farm because the place was cool.
It is usually just the atheists mocking the religion because they donât get it. Old testiment doesnât teach be mean to gays, trade relations with Sodom were kept open till the flood, they were treated as human, their laws respected. It wasnât till literally everyone BUT Noahâs family went down a path of being fuckheads that the world was flooded, and only after excessive pleading but Noah. Obviously it was never just about gays, Gomorrah did something else, people were still being born.
The actual source of Anti-Gay sentiment in the west derives fro Sardunapulas. Iâve pointed this out a hundred times in the past, he was the tranny drag queen who supposedly lit himself and all his homo-concubines on fire inside the state treasury after a empire wide uprising occurred, all the people coming together to wipe him from the earth in a massive siege of ninevah.
This was universally accepted as part of the history of the world till the 19th century. Then we discovered from Archeology thatâs not how the Assyrians collapsed at all. Wasnât until I came across the myth that I immediately identified it with Kind Zhou of the Shang Dynasty, a tranny king who lit himself onfire in the treasury with all his homo-conqubines after the entire areas under vassalage to the Shang Empire rose up against him.
The zoroastrians were active in both Israeli and western China (where they originated), both Confucius and Aristotle wrote on thus event at several points as a great indicator of vice.
That is the origins. No place does it say in the Bible kill homos, or make them carry heavy weights or make life difficult. Jesus didnât expand on the tradition by kicking some faggots ass on his way back to Galilee. The tradition is actually one of tolerance we get from the Canon. Itâs post-Christ, especially once it becomes the religion of a empire, and into the middle ages do you see them trying to figure out how to a fix philosophical and historical ideas regarding homosexuals into larger marriage laws. Obviously we didnât fuck them over too badly and persecute them all, cause if we did, we wouldnât have so many today. Bisexuals seemed to of survived this era just fine. If anything, sexuality in general was slammed, not just homosexuality, it was a era when every intellectual was a monastic.
So get your facts straight, stop being so tarded. You point straight guys donât approve of homo men have merit, but not because it came from the Bible. This is no different than trixie going cross eyed in confusion that his mother didnât want him to become a tranny because he was a tranny, cause all she does is read the Bible. Clearly this is not the case, cause that shit ainât in the Bible as far as Iâm aware. It is just a easy target to excuse doing deeply retarded acts. I donât believe the Bible opposes cannibalism either, but you canât accuse Bible thumpers of being narrow minded every time they oppose a willing act of cannibalism. They arenât stopping you from digging people up at midnight for a feast because they just read the Book of Ezra. Thatâs absurd.
Iâve always been nice to gays in person, even in the art when Donât Ask, Donât Tell was in force. It isnât Christian to be cruel to them, not even Jewish. Philosophically, it is unwise to encourage it unless you live in that Soylent Green universe.
Fergy, face up to it: we live in a world where there are tons of biggoted Christians (you being a prime example) who hate fags and fall back on passages from the OT to back up their position. I donât care how those passages originated, or how theyâd been interpreted through the ages, or what other factors played a part in the culmination of anti-gay sentiments we have todayâitâs a factâa factâthat there people who resort to the OT to justify their anti-gay principles. â That was my only point.
Donât hate fags, I have several fag friends, even talk to several on the net, you being a prime example.
And old testament will stone you to death on just about anything. A lot of people donât get that at any given point in old testament times, the authority to prosecute in a Noahide like fashion was extremely limited by virtue of the fact they didnât have a central judiciary, or even agreement on what the laws meant. These rules obviously didnât apply to Babylonians, or Greeks, or Spartans, and Iâm doubting the Samaritans were okay with Jews enforcing the laws on them, or Anti-Mosaic Mandaeans, Jesus was himself a great upholder of these rules, and flaunted the legitimacy of the punishment. Very few people ever really followed those rules in full, and there is plenty of collaborating testiment that jews were openly friends with gays, had trade relations with them, one scene in the Bible just before the flood even had them in a gay bar (albiet unknowingly) and half the shit that goes on rule wise was default unenforceable. You are aware they were completely surrounded by Assyrian gay cults? They had gay priesthoods cutting their dicks off, and parading around in drag telling everyone in parades to have orgies. Thatâs pagan historians noting this.
And some of these rules are damn outright hilarious.
Look at this one, Iâm a pedestrian, like to walk, and get teenagers yelling at me from cars as I walk, trying to scare or provoke me:
Obviously, the biblical penalty for getting jeered at while walking about your hair isnât a mass ass raping by two bears on every participant. The jews didnât keep bears caged up for these occasions, or look upon them approvingly saying âGod Wills Itâ every time a bear or lion attacked someone. Obviously some light hearted humor inserted into it.
Donât take this shit too seriously, this era was very weakly structured. They didnât even have the legalistic insights of structure judicial logic like Shariâa does, and nobody got along with anyone back in that era in terms of authority. The jews we have that still go by the most archaic rules around, prior to the second temple, are in Ethiopia, and donât enforce the vast majority of it.
Your far more of a bigot than me in being religiously intolerant. You systematically denigrate Christianity, now Jusiasm, seen you falsely couple the two religions with Islam. You donât even much understand the era your talking about, it was chalked full of obvious contradictions,that make no sense in the chronicals when you compare them to the rules. They even had a pagan Messiah. People donât get old testament jews because we insist they were alien and remote from the modern world, they are very similar to us. They would stone and kill people for a lot of things, and we know they were by no means consistent or uniform in approach or application.
If I was this do called old testament biggot, I be on greyhound to your town to smite you over it. I be smitting most site members for saying retarded shit only a retard would say. Like âSatan means truthâ⌠only times thus asshole popped up, he was lying or fucking people over, but I donât go around with a big stick hitting fat guys upside the head on acid trips for saying stupid shit.
But if your gonna consistently keep bigoted, like you are Gib, you will get a history check. Do you think Jews keep bears to release on people who jeer at them? Is that kosher? Or is the old testament talking to a audience that grew up around these laws, had a better grasp on application, especially knowing the political inability to universally apply these rules on half the population? What if you just canât grow a beard, and say so? Are you punished?
It is everyone BUT Christians and Jews who have difficulty getting around this. Notice we arenât startled at all seeing this, and we have humorous situations in history when a priest or overly poius man took a old rule to heart outside of larger context. For a few years in the middle ages, the church tried to resurrect the old rules on laying siege to sieges and castles, found it was horrendously absurd, didnât make life better for either side or civilians, just prolonged the sieges. It was well out of context, not the same enemies, troop ratios, siege engines, we had a enlarged scope of Just War Theory bring used, and the opponents we NOT be having like old testament opponents. Furthermore, the age of Judges (local warlords without hierarchy) didnât much match up with increasingly centralized fuedal society, the politics was far more complex. Christians lack a Sunnah, unless you want to call the New Testiment that, and Jews, it was usually Rabbis who rarely fought from Roman times to the near present who kept intricate rules and antedotes on this stuff. There was only one Jewish state prior to Israel in premodern times after the Roman conquest, and that was in Ukraine, and they didnât follow the rules too closely. It throws a lot of problems of interpretation into your expectations.
Well, this is all a fascinating history lesson, Turd. I mean it. Iâm being serious.
But are we still on the point about what actually happened in history vs. how some Christians today fall back on the OT to justify their homophobia? I take it that since you didnât address the latter directly, but rather seem to want to masturbate all over the internet with you history gizz, weâve moved beyond that point.
Good! Awesome!
What else do you have to teach us about the history of Western/Abrahamic religion?
Nothing, Abrahamic religion predates Judiasm, little us known about that period, and all we did was explore your denigrations of Christianity.
As I pointed out, people arenât homophobic period about the Bible, that just gives at best a little more justification. It comes from historically Sardanapullas.
Period.
Thatâs how it is, if you look at any chronologia till relatively recently, thatâs where the ideology comes from, but thatâs a effect of scholarship, not actual homophobia. Thatâs rooted in nature, nobody teaches us. It would exist, and does exist, all over the world, just as nobody had to teach you to be a drug using loser who dismisses other groups arbitrarily like this. Did your second grade teacher help a little? Perhaps, or that guy who curses all the time, but I think we both know the shithead that you turned into was within you all along, and was a inevitability. We arenât truely blank slates at birth. Evidence if this is a lot of weird or mean ideas out there we never pick up, but some come very quick and naturally, we turn into little Einsteins adding to them without prior learning.
You also gotta factor in, the aspects you believe to be âabrahamicâ spread prior to Christianity into Buddhism. That Sardanapullas guy you wonât mention, his story just didnât go east to west, it was added to and went east again. In Buddhism, Lord Shang oftentimes if found standing in a tower very closely described like the Tower of Babylon. Itâs also linked in Zoroastrianism to the origins of liqour. Itâs spread to a lot of religions. Only religion I donât find mention of it in (yet) is Islam. Other religions, like the Mandaeans (they are Abrahamic, descended from him, but Anti Moses, so not Jewish) donât hace this issue youâve assigned them, yet are cautious too regarding gays. Samaritans arenât abrahamic, are Mosaic, differed early on, approach things a bit differently than you expect. Muslims flip flop all over the place like Christians and Jews on this issue.
Yet it is all clear cut to Gib, out in the Canadian Midwest, because he uses drugs and knows better.
I donât really think you know shit about the early modern history of homosexuality. The assinu of Babylon and Assyria had a religious monopoly like the later cult of Syria Dei, but were often mocked by the locals. You can go all the way to medieval Japan, find people mocking and getting angry at gays. It isnât something that goes away with a language definition change, or political correctness, or pull a Book of Eli stunt and blame the Bible when your nose is full of white powder for ugly consequences. Homosexuality is either fervently embraced, EVERYONE practices it (rare, small pedo tribes), it is banned yet still ridiculously widespread, whatever the punishment, or it is tolerated and ridiculed, with the bulk of the population socially reprimanded by kinship ties to stay the fuck away from them. This is the predominant pattern around the world culture by culture Iâve seen first hand or studied up on. Our current gay pride formulations have little long term chance of thriving, most cultures that embrace that outlook are heavily dependent on immigrants from these very areas, as you yourself are via your father. You know long term, progressive liberal theory regarding this will implode merely due to overwhelming disregard by the very people liberals expect to uphold it. They are unlikely to play along.
Bahaâi as far as I know should qualify as Abrahamic by your lazy as fuck definition, same laws, donât persecute. You choose to arbitrarily divide time as you see fit to give it a negative blanketbidentity, but law doesnât exist in the scope of time, but of axiom. It is timeless, and if not actively lived, loses meaning. Attempts to resurrect original ideals once circumstances have passed lead to absurd morphologies, historic anachronisms.
godchecker.com/pantheon/chin ⌠=ZHOU-WANG
That is Lord Zhou (of the Zhang dynasty) Sodomy Temple. Both Aristotle (via Sardanapullas) and Confucius got bent out of shape on this story, think Aristotle had access to the same Persia history Ctesias used in the Royal Persia Archives.
Notice the remarkable fucking lack of anything at all resembling your pot smoke definition of âAbrahamic Religionâ in the construction of this temple in the early Zhou Dynasty. Notice it has the same roots, east and west, in regards to his we look at vices and virtues in terms of language and history.
Now consider this. Prior to Emperor Zhou, legends of Emperor Zhouâs fall didnât exist, do where did it come from? People just innately fucking hate homosexuals and trannies when they turn tyrannical, during times of famine. Sardanapullas was the classical definition for a hendonistic despot, they very thing Marxist desired in later eras to eradicate. In China, they smeared him way, way worst. So bad, even in China where homosexuality was illegal till recently, theyâve always maintained his one, single temple to sodomy. They never ever wanted to close it down, because at the core of Chinese civilization, they hate Emperor Zhou like we hate Hitler. It is that central to their civilization. We took it up in the west with a passion. Cults like Dea Syria added a great comparison to that myth. There was no rule saying hunt them down, destroy the gay tranny successors to the Assinu, wipe them out. That was people applying philosophical and administrative insights. They made every young woman prosritute themselves at her temple, and she couldnât quit being a prostitute till the priests agreed. You had no damn choice.
It is easy to forget how bad things could get in areas. You can be a cross eyed shit and cry moral relativity, but STD and Plague doesnât know about such things. There just comes a point when a society starts declining so bad people go back to the books and try to figure out how to solve plagues, wars, population collapse, and cities dying off. Thatâs the direction we went in antiquity, and it wasnât completely without merit. It is very close to how people instinctively think, how we turn hysterical under pressure and blame. Even had we removed every reference in history about anti gay thought, it eoukd of arose again.
Its one of those things that come easily to us as a species. Remarkably, isvalso ourbability to accept such people when on paoer thet shoukd be having a full scale genocide mathematically. You think people would of wiped homosexuality out by now if tgey consistenly applied said laws over thousands of years. They didnt, there was obviously alot of tolerance going on as well, andevery priesthood from China to England had to of known, and let things be usually. Nobody ever mentions that. The greatest archeological evidence we have is the obvious numbers who exist today in each population who are gay. They thrived somehow. We donât consider this when pointing fingers.
Thinking of putting together a âILP: The Movieâ
Concept art. A more worked out example of this, with back and forth dialogue, a surrealist journey into the insanity of others.
Still doesnât answer the question though⌠maybe there isnât one⌠it just was.
Third Eye what? Are we talking Cartesian seat of the soul in the pituitary gland, or hippy hallucination third eye, or the eye of ra pic provided? I need to know what your talking in reference to. Third eye can mean just about anything.
Too many questions, Iâm out.
What? Your like, the Ghost of Christmas Quitting.
Just for the record, I never said all Abrahamic religions are anti-gay (though they probably are), that was a term I used (spliced with âWesternâ) to describe the scope of your history lessons.
Like I said in an earlier post, gays the world over must be singing your praises for it.
Holy shit! You bothered to come up with that? Whatâd you use? Photoshop? Gimp?
I hope youâre having fun, Turd. I find this all amusing myself. You shouldnât take this too seriously. Youâll get an ulcer. I can see you sitting there burning up with rage, but then again I can also see you enjoying this (you get to prove your smarts the only way you know how: history lessons, while at the same time mocking me). Which is it? Iâm actually kinda worried about you. I mean, thereâs a lot of people like that here on ILPâthey really get all riled up over silly shit (think Magnus Anderson)âtheyâre easy to goad once you know what pisses them off, and thatâs a weakness. Donât be like that Turd. Lighten up a bit. Not saying you should just agree with me, just at least tell me youâre having a bit of fun.
Not everything can be tied to my drug use.
Anyway, hereâs the real scoop: Christianity isnât my cup of tea. I find it easy to poke fun at. Been tainted by the likes of Richard Dawkins and other anti-religious groups. But thatâs mainly how Christianity is understood in the traditional/formal senseâas in a religion of sacrifice, martyrdom, and guilt. While at the same time, itâs also a religion of love, forgiveness and tolerance, I find the latter are whatâs cherry picked out of the religion by most Christians today. And thatâs a good thing! It means people are listening more to their conscience than the literal word of the Bible or authoritative interpretations that focus on other stuff. In other words, I distinguish between the âismâ and the âistââbetween the religion and the religious personâand even then, the âismâ I have qualms against is, like I said, the traditional/formal rendition of Christianity. â That shit just seem unhealthy to me, and breeds more hatred and resentment towards any kind of non-conformity to the narrow letter. If it teaches that the only way a person is going to be worthy of heaven is to be willing to hang himself up on a cross for his enemies, then weâre certainly all going to hell. â Thatâs the shit I donât like.
I donât think your history lessons has any bearing on that, nor have you succeeded in sweeping under the rug the fact, which still remains, that there are plenty of faggot hating Christians around who fall back on the Bible to justify their prejudices. Your knowledge of history doesnât make those people or their prejudices go away. I know you donât like to hear it 'cause theyâre âone of youâ (you know, racist, sexist, homophobic redneck conservative Republicans), but seriously, face up to the shit youâve got in your own backyard.
But hey! Why donât you tell me more about antiquity! About ancient Mesopotamia? About other Chinese dynasties! Thatâll make that shit go away!
But anyway⌠Merry Christmas.
Iâm no more angry here than I am anywhere else on the site. And it isnât my first time yelling the sardanapullas story, or my first image on my android phone (1 minute to make). I just made a full fledged gif of Shieldmaiden as a terror kangaroo, not angry at her at all, took a lot more effort, posted prior to you.
But yeah, your definitely gonna be the Myth of Tithonus portion of the ILovePhilosophy.com movie. Iâve been observing these things about you for a very long time. One way or another, your taking a shit in that snowy yard.
Like I said, I put in 1000% the effort on that one over your rough draft. Hard to put a shield in a kangarooâs arm.
It still sucks.