Memory Palaces

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
21

Indeed, but they really did write down anything and everything that was of detailed value.
For instance, as Anon pointed out, the Kalachakra.
Or as I noted, walking.

I’m not saying that they didn’t care about oral. I’m saying it would be out of the Asian character to have something propigated throughout their culture and not just have nothing much written about it, but not have multiple practices and doctrines (ways) documented in writing regarding it.

If, however, we were talking about the Celts…well…then I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if they didn’t write something down that was of value to them.

22

Sorry, my misunderstanding - understood.

23

Stumps,

How do you know this? We’re talking about vajrayana culture here, where the information to be imparted is seen as not fit for all eyes. What makes you think the ancient Indian Buddhists, and later, that Tibetan Buddhists, would publish and spread this information freely to anyone merely educated enough worldly-wise to read?

Most texts, by the way, were only available to the fully initiated. They weren’t written in a form that would be appropriate for the layman to understand. They were meant as teaching aids. This causes problems to this day, where students try to understand such texts on their own, without the help of qualified teachers who know how to elucidate the meaning of the text. “Translation” isn’t just something that happens when converting a text from one language to another, it is also something that happens when elucidating the meaning of a text to a student.

I’ll try to read your comments more closely as soon as I can, and respond if it seems appropriate.

24

Generation stage is considered “method”, or “skillful means”. It is about utilizing the creative imagination (which we typically associate with delusion) in a non-deluded way. We can use all the tools at our disposal as human beings in order to overcome delusion. (For instance, Buddhist intellectual pursuits have been traditionally compared to rubbing two sticks together until they burn themselves up in the fire they create.) Completion stage is considered “wisdom”. It is mahamudra practice. Mahamudra practice consists of resting in the nature of the mind, free of delusion, free of elaboration, free of effort. I personally think of the contrast betweeen generation stage and completion stage as like joyous physical exercise followed by sweet rest and relaxation.

25

Ok, Stumps, I’ve read your post more closely. I admit, I don’t get it.

Stumps, learning to read (for instance) involves work. Reading and writing is contrived. It is only fluid and intuitive after you have mastered the skills. Reading and writing are tools - means towards ends. That’s all they are, yet they are important.

26

What I mean is that we have incredible memory already.
Their method seems to me to use methods that aren’t normal functions of the brain.
They are creating entire structures in their head; that alone requires maintenance and is not what I observe my brain doing naturally.

“Abuse” what happens naturally.
What happens naturally, for me at least, is something far closer to synesthesia.

Like I wrote before: What color is Tuesday?
What color is 6?
How does 8 feel?

These are things I have answers to directly.
1936, for instance, silver with white - feels cold - I smell brisk air.

1942, by contrast, brown - feels warm, I smell leather and see an ocean front to a city.

2 - brownish black, cold.
8 - black, infinitely empty.
6 - white, bright, itching-burn that tingles like nerves.
3 - burst, orange.
5 - vibrant, red
7 - burst orange, different motion than 3, feels bigger, more voluminous in its orange

Sunday - Yellow - calm/slow
Monday - Orange
Tuesday - Red
Wednesday - Yellow - energetic/busy
Thursday - Dark Red
Friday - Grey
Saturday - Black

Feb - green yet mud grey, smells of nothing

2/23/2011 - 2:30pm (the time of this post here)
brownish black of a green, yet mud grey that smells of nothing over a silver and black (23) in a swirl of absence (11) and space (2000) at the hour of yellow silver black (pm augments, like a power, the attributes of others and is itself somewhat silver, 30 is yellow in basic color) on the day of Yellow - higher heart rate; wear brown today.
Dammit…I wore orange…I’m most likely going to more prone to stress as a result (unless I weren’t forced into stressful conditions [I floor manage a call center] and instead was freely walking around, then orange on the yellow day would be jubilant and good). Should’ve paid attention before leaving the house. I’ll just cover with my brown sweater and try to ignore the orange shirt under it.

I’m just spitting out puke from my brain in hopes that you can see what I’m referring to.
If you watch your brain closely, rather than forcing more crap into it, you may just find that it already has an associative memory language going on in there for you visually to use.

So…what color is Tuesday?

27

Sorry Stumps, you’re making no sense at all to me. The “method of loci” technique is about capitalizing on how the brain already works. Yes, the brain does this naturally. However, using the technique yields amazing results, compared to people who don’t use the technique. You complain that this method “requires maintenance”. Yes, it does. What are you trying to say? It’s a technique that works for remembering enormous amounts of information which you would not be able to remember when not using the technique. It takes effort to learn the technique, but using the technique yields powerful results. I don’t know how much more straightforward I can make this. If you’re not interested in learning to read because it’s too much work and you have no use for it, then you don’t have to learn to read. If you want to make use of the world that’s opened up to you by learning the skill of reading, then you do the work and learn how to read.

28

It’s not the only way to “read”.

Are you seriously telling me that you have no color association at all to Tuesday?

29

Like that? :slight_smile:

30

No, not like that.

Like this.
What is the first taste of Christmas?
Why?

31

Why are you comparing apples to oranges? I can’t figure out your point.

32

Synesthesic memory is far more close, in my opinion, to natural memory processing than “construction” methods (building things in your mind to store other things in, now therefore, having to remember the placement of not one, but two things).

It’s incredibly simple. Many people, yourself included I’m sure, have it happen frequently enough.
You see a completely benign item that causes you recall of something completely different.
Or someone says something that causes recall of something completely different.

33

Synesthesia is involuntary, as far as I know. It is not a mnemonic device. Am I wrong?

Your complaint about having to remember two things rather than one is quite odd, considering that it works.

34

It doesn’t work.
Most of them don’t use it outside of these events.
Primarily because, as the author of the article put it, it’s not actually convenient to use with all the modern systems like paper and pencil, calendar schedules, computers, phones, etc…

Synesthesia is involuntary, but quite a number of people have it in smaller forms because it’s useful.
As I said, I can walk up to people at random and ask them for colors of the week and they have them.
I asked a co-worker yesterday just for fun: “What color is Tuesday?” I asked. After three seconds of his eyes moving to the visual ranges of the mental recall (upper right), “Pink.”

I’m not saying, hey, look: you can create synesthesia in yourself!
Not at all.
I’m saying there’s forms of that already going on in your head, find out what they are and exploit that.

Just start asking yourself questions about what things look, feel, taste, smell, sound, and/or emotionally feel like that have no inherent trait of such.

You think of a perfume, recall the smell, and suddenly your aunt/mother/grandmother/old girlfriend/dead wife/etc… pops into mind vividly accompanied by emotions and sights.

It’s the same as this.

35

What do you mean it doesn’t work? At what? At giving you a better overall memory? Nobody has claimed that’s what it does. What are you up to Mr. Stumps? You’re not even in the ballpark. I’m discussing apples, and you’re discussing…giraffes or something.

36

I don’t know, was just following thought and conversation.
Perhaps I should shut it and back away.

On tangent, I think I’ll stick to what I said previously.

37

I am sorry dudes but I have no idea what this discussion was about.

Anon, I think I understand generation stage. A process of changing the basis of how we view ourselves (using imagination).

But Completion stage makes no sense to me at all. Just because it makes no sense to me at all and seems impossible to understand does not make it of no value. All it means is that I don’t understand.

38

Yeah, that’s my fault.
I failed terribly and derailed everything.
Anon, if you would prefer I could split the thread and move my unrelated threads out and clean this back up and on-tangent.

39

My own understanding is very limited, at best. Also, “completion stage” can be approached in very different ways. I have no understanding at all of things like “subtle energies”, “channels” and “chakras” for instance, and have never been directly instructed in such things. But that approach is not necessary - it is just a tool and all tools have their appropriate in inappropriate contexts.

As I think I mentioned before, completion stage refers to Mahamudra practice. Here is a nice overview of Mahamudra practice by the famous 10th century Indian practitioner Tilopa. That might give a flavor of what completion stage practice, in its more basic and direct form, may consist of.

40

No problem at all, Stumps. These things happen. I see no reason to move anything, unless you’d like to start a thread on synesthesia. I personally think it’s a pretty interesting topic, though I’m not sure if I’d find anything worthwhile to say about it.