Joker Here.

iambiguous · November 22, 2020, 7:17pm

On the other hand, what’s getting old for some of us is you and the rest of the Kids popping up in ILP, dumping dozens of two or three line “posts” in dozens of different threads that reconfigure ILP into just another social media wasteland.

In other words, in regard to the points I raised with you above…

Here, for example…

iambiguous:

Zero_Sum:

Actually I do describe myself as an objectivist these days but not in an annoying manner as some in that I understand with it there are several complex nuances or variables attached to it. It’s not enough to just say reality is objective, there are several other factors that go along with it.

I’m really far less interested in what you believe or claim to know about yourself as an objectivist.

What I would prefer instead is that you describe the behaviors you’d choose in regard to your interactions with others in which moral and political value judgments come into conflict. How would you go about demonstrating that your own values and behaviors are those that all rational and virtuous men and women are obligated to emulate?

In other words, back to the bottom line [mine]: How are you able to avoid feeling “fractured and fragmented” in the manner in which my own moral philosophy is rooted in this:

If I am always of the opinion that 1] my own values are rooted in dasein and 2] that there are no objective values “I” can reach, then every time I make one particular moral/political leap, I am admitting that I might have gone in the other direction…or that I might just as well have gone in the other direction. Then “I” begins to fracture and fragment to the point there is nothing able to actually keep it all together. At least not with respect to choosing sides morally and politically.

Rooted in turn in the arguments I make in my signature threads.

Now: How deep are you willing to go in exploring this with me?

Zero_Sum:

Got me on the ropes? That will never happen Biggie, but I give you props for your over enthusiasm nonetheless.

See, this is the big difference between us. I would not say “never happen” in regard to your own point of view. Why? Because, given human autonomy, how on earth could I possibly know what new experiences, new relationships and access to new information, knowledge and ideas might unfold in the future to change my mind?

You can say “never happen” because you are just one more fierce objectivist in regard to “I” in the is/ought world.

Well, sure, you did come to different conclusions about the world around us before but…but this time – this time – you really, really, really are in sync with the Real Me in sync with The Right Thing to Believe, to Know, to Describe.

Right?

I’m trying to save you from yourSelf. Only, admittedly, the cure – “I” – night be described as worse than the disease.

…we get nothing substantive from you at all.

The same basically for those like Pedro and Mr. Reasonable. For every post from them that one might expect to find in a philosophy venue, there are many, many, many more that that qualify as little more than “chit-chat”.

Look, I see the writing on the wall. ILP is nothing at all like it was when I first became a member. No real moderation at all and even on the philosophy board we get crap like this: ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop … &start=300

Fortunately, when you’re waiting for godot everything is able to be intertwined in and reduced down to the waiting itself.

iambiguous · November 22, 2020, 7:24pm

Zero_Sum:

iambiguous:

Zero_Sum:

Actually I do describe myself as an objectivist these days but not in an annoying manner as some in that I understand with it there are several complex nuances or variables attached to it. It’s not enough to just say reality is objective, there are several other factors that go along with it.

I’m really far less interested in what you believe or claim to know about yourself as an objectivist.

What I would prefer instead is that you describe the behaviors you’d choose in regard to your interactions with others in which moral and political value judgments come into conflict. How would you go about demonstrating that your own values and behaviors are those that all rational and virtuous men and women are obligated to emulate?

In other words, back to the bottom line [mine]: How are you able to avoid feeling “fractured and fragmented” in the manner in which my own moral philosophy is rooted in this:

If I am always of the opinion that 1] my own values are rooted in dasein and 2] that there are no objective values “I” can reach, then every time I make one particular moral/political leap, I am admitting that I might have gone in the other direction…or that I might just as well have gone in the other direction. Then “I” begins to fracture and fragment to the point there is nothing able to actually keep it all together. At least not with respect to choosing sides morally and politically.

Rooted in turn in the arguments I make in my signature threads.

Now: How deep are you willing to go in exploring this with me?

Zero_Sum:

Got me on the ropes? That will never happen Biggie, but I give you props for your over enthusiasm nonetheless.

See, this is the big difference between us. I would not say “never happen” in regard to your own point of view. Why? Because, given human autonomy, how on earth could I possibly know what new experiences, new relationships and access to new information, knowledge and ideas might unfold in the future to change my mind?

You can say “never happen” because you are just one more fierce objectivist in regard to “I” in the is/ought world.

Well, sure, you did come to different conclusions about the world around us before but…but this time – this time – you really, really, really are in sync with the Real Me in sync with The Right Thing to Believe, to Know, to Describe.

Right?

I’m trying to save you from yourSelf. Only, admittedly, the cure – “I” – night be described as worse than the disease.

For somebody who says they believe in nothing and that all of human experience is subjective it truly is amazing how you pass judgement on others almost within an objective framework of mind, it’s almost like your entire belief system is very inconsistent.

You of course are asking for validation of other people’s beliefs, values, or thought processes acting as if there is a sort of formula of pure reason by doing so which is very interesting because in a way by doing so you contradict your entire point to begin with which betrays you. Of course by now one would think you would come to understand that human nature is imperfect and therefore any inclinations of human reason, logic, or rationale would also be imperfect which is why it is all rooted in conflict to begin with.

Conflict itself is the very nature of human existence because it is imperfect.

I say it will never happen because of the self confidence in myself that I possess.

Save me from myself? It’s almost like you’re thinking like an objectivist there, the very thing you’re supposedly constantly critiquing. Make up your mind already Biggie, you can’t have both.

Ah, here is an example of “substance” from him!

Little or nothing in regard to the points I make above. Instead, he becomes just another Stooge making me the issue.

Really, imagine someone who has read my arguments here over the years actually coming to the conclusion that…

This is completely preposterous! This is Wendy Darling stuff!!

Mr_J · November 22, 2020, 7:29pm

For now on when referring to Biggie we say he is an objectivist pretending not to be one, it’s the only thing that makes sense with him.

promethean75 · November 22, 2020, 7:29pm

“dumping dozens of two or three line “posts” in dozens of different threads that reconfigure ILP into just another social media wasteland.”

Hey that’s what I do. You leave zero sum and the rest of the fine people at ILP out if this goddamit.

Mr_J · November 22, 2020, 7:32pm

You’re like me able to say what you want in a few short sentences or paragraphs, I don’t feel the need to write an exceptionally large treatise concerning subjects especially when I know a majority of people won’t read it anyways.

Mr_J · November 22, 2020, 7:36pm

What does Biggie even mean by saying exploring stuff with me anyways? He’s pretty vague as usual, scratch that, he’s the king of vagueness. He complains about nothing being substantive, that coming from a nihilistic subjectivist is pretty hilarious.

He then complains about people’s style, interpretation, expression, or foundation of thinking, this coming from a person who denies all objectivIsm showing his true colors once again. It’s all so tedious and tiresome.

Also, I won’t have to wait for Godot much longer, the bitch is basically almost here concerning national and world events unfolding, FYI.

iambiguous · November 22, 2020, 7:44pm

Yeah, you do.

But exceptions can be made if there is actual wit attached to them.

iambiguous · November 22, 2020, 7:47pm

And this is Pedro stuff. What’s next, that I’m “dirty commie bastard”?

Mr_J · November 22, 2020, 7:50pm

Interesting you say that considering as a so called nihilist you sympathize with the neoliberals and Marxists the most every time your personal politics are concerned. For a nihilist your bias certainly shows.

Mr_J · November 22, 2020, 7:54pm

I make it no secret that I am an ethnocentric kind of man, but more on point, I have no faith whatsoever in neo-liberal democracy and the great thing about national socialism is that it is economically socialist while retaining traditional conservative values concerning all other segments of society beyond economy.

It is one reason I can never support republicanism or libertarianism because I detest and despise economic crony capitalism.

Politically I would describe myself as a socially conservative economic socialist basically. I’m not opposed to economic socialism, I’m opposed to social, racial, sexual, and cultural Marxism.

iambiguous · November 22, 2020, 7:59pm

On the contrary, when asking others to explore their own sense of identity as it is embodied in the behaviors that they choose given the moral and political value judgments they subscribe to, I ask them to please read the arguments I make in my signature threads.

They encompass my own assumptions regarding a discussion out in the deep end of the philosophical pool.

Then in regard to a particular set of circumstances, I ask them to assess the extent to which this…

…is or is not applicable to themselves in regard to the behaviors they choose, when those behaviors are challenged by others.

On the philosophy board. An intelligent and civil exchange.

In other words, take these accusation…

…to the philosophy board and, in the exchange, note in particular when I do these things.

iambiguous · November 22, 2020, 8:01pm

Again, this “assessment” is Wendy Darling Kidstuff.

Mr_J · November 22, 2020, 8:05pm

So you’re a neo-liberal Marxist pretending to be a nihilist, got it. Promethean is a more consistent nihilist than you’ll ever be.

Mr_J · November 22, 2020, 8:08pm

I’ll tell you what Biggie, if you really want to get to know me just ask your questions straight forward and I’ll respond, however, I’m not going to play your silly philosophical games upon some sort of “dasein” contingent.

iambiguous · November 22, 2020, 8:11pm

Look, I once explained my reaction to the “new ILP” to prom75:

Me? Well, my own story here might be construed as particularly bathetic. Back before various “social media” like twitter and facebook and reddit became the preferred platforms for philosophy and, well, practically everything else, I was once a member of the larger, more “prestigious” philosophy forum online, The Philosophy Forum: thephilosophyforum.com/

But, for posting pretty much the same sort of thing I post here, Postmodern Beatnik – out of the blue! – “banned me for life”.
Anyway, I went looking for another forum and settled on ILP.

And, back then, there really were far, far, far more discussions started and then sustained by those who, for whatever personal reason, were avid philosophers. Far fewer Kids and “social media” types.

So, basically, I put all my eggs in the ILP basket.

I started my signature threads including quotes, music and film. I commenced my “back to the beginning” series. I contributed any number of posts aimed at precipitating exchanges relating to that which is of most interest to me: how ought one to live given the stark reality that there may or may not be an actual Judgment Day.

Alas, however, ILP has gone more in the direction of the Kids, the yak yak yakkers, and the rabid [often unintelligible] Fixed Jacob objectivists.

But: it’s too late for me anyway. I’m an “old man”, wallowing in distractions and waiting for godot. But, who knows, if more minds like Mo’s and Faust’s and Only_Humean’s do become attracted to the forum, the Kids and social media types might be shunted aside.
In any event, given my own actual “set of circumstances”, it is all now way, way “beyond my control”.

Okay, the Kids and “yak yak yak” crowd and the declamatory “liberals are scumbags” reactionaries basically are ILP today. And nothing is really being done to change it.

Hell, I’d settle for the philosophy board alone being a place where actual intelligence could shine.

But it’s all now “beyond my control”. The Kids and the yak yak yakkers and sub-mental ideologues basically rule the boards.

Mr_J · November 22, 2020, 8:17pm

Yeah, you really do sound like an old man right now yelling at kids to get off your pristine front lawn.

iambiguous · November 22, 2020, 8:20pm

Zero_Sum:

iambiguous:

Look, I once explained my reaction to the “new ILP” to prom75:

Me? Well, my own story here might be construed as particularly bathetic. Back before various “social media” like twitter and facebook and reddit became the preferred platforms for philosophy and, well, practically everything else, I was once a member of the larger, more “prestigious” philosophy forum online, The Philosophy Forum: thephilosophyforum.com/

But, for posting pretty much the same sort of thing I post here, Postmodern Beatnik – out of the blue! – “banned me for life”.
Anyway, I went looking for another forum and settled on ILP.

And, back then, there really were far, far, far more discussions started and then sustained by those who, for whatever personal reason, were avid philosophers. Far fewer Kids and “social media” types.

So, basically, I put all my eggs in the ILP basket.

I started my signature threads including quotes, music and film. I commenced my “back to the beginning” series. I contributed any number of posts aimed at precipitating exchanges relating to that which is of most interest to me: how ought one to live given the stark reality that there may or may not be an actual Judgment Day.

Alas, however, ILP has gone more in the direction of the Kids, the yak yak yakkers, and the rabid [often unintelligible] Fixed Jacob objectivists.

But: it’s too late for me anyway. I’m an “old man”, wallowing in distractions and waiting for godot. But, who knows, if more minds like Mo’s and Faust’s and Only_Humean’s do become attracted to the forum, the Kids and social media types might be shunted aside.
In any event, given my own actual “set of circumstances”, it is all now way, way “beyond my control”.

Okay, the Kids and “yak yak yak” crowd and the declamatory “liberals are scumbags” reactionaries basically are ILP today. And nothing is really being done to change it.

Hell, I’d settle for the philosophy board alone being a place where actual intelligence could shine.

But it’s all now “beyond my control”. The Kids and the yak yak yakkers and sub-mental ideologues basically rule the boards.

Yeah, you really do sound like an old man right now yelling at kids to get off your pristine front lawn.

See, I told you! Pure unadulterated crap.

You know, if I do say so myself.

Pedro_I_Rengel · November 22, 2020, 10:50pm

Poor iam.

Meno2 · November 22, 2020, 11:25pm

He is a big boy, he can take it!

iambiguous · November 22, 2020, 11:30pm

Quite the contrary. I still have any number activities in my life that bring me enormous fulfillment and satisfaction. And though I have health problems, none of them are even remotely life threatening.

Instead, for the few hours a day I come in here. And I can’t help but recall how much more fulfilling the experience was when the posters by and large actually did seem to love philosophy.

Most of them are gone. Perhaps because of me in regard to this…

1] I argue that while philosophers may go in search of wisdom, this wisdom is always truncated by the gap between what philosophers think they know [about anything] and all that there is to be known in order to grasp the human condition in the context of existence itself. That bothers some. When it really begins to sink in that this quest is ultimately futile, some abandon philosophy altogether. Instead, they stick to the part where they concentrate fully on living their lives “for all practical purposes” from day to day.

2] I suggest in turn it appears reasonable that, in a world sans God, the human brain is but more matter wholly in sync [as a part of nature] with the laws of matter. And, thus, anything we think, feel, say or do is always only that which we were ever able to think, feel, say and do. And that includes philosophers. Some will inevitably find that disturbing. If they can’t know for certain that they possess autonomy, they can’t know for certain that their philosophical excursions are in fact of their own volition.

3] And then the part where, assuming some measure of autonomy, I suggest that “I” in the is/ought world is basically an existential contraption interacting with other existential contraptions in a world teeming with conflicting goods — and in contexts in which wealth and power prevails in the political arena. The part where “I” becomes fractured and fragmented.

But mostly I suspect because the Kids and “yak yak yak” social media clowns and the pinhead objectivists have overrun the place with endless “chit chat” exchanges and scathing declamatory attacks on [mostly] liberals.

Though of course: If I do say so myself.