I offer a challenge

[URUZ]

Conservatism does not imply nor require any kind of theism (or atheism).

[URUZ]

And you haven’t made even a single argument defending your claim that conservatism and theism are linked, you simply assert they are.

Learn to make a point. I mean cmon…

[phyllo]

Recently in my country, there was a proposal to end home delivery of mail because it loses money. (Mail would be delivered to a communal boxes and would need to be picked up.)

Is the conservative position ?

1. Keep home delivery because it is “traditional” and established.
2. End home delivery and save tax money.
3. End universal home delivery but keep it for special cases like seniors and the handicapped.

Which of those options has anything to do with God, Jesus, sin or “evil nature of humanity”?

The same questions arise for all sorts of political positions … road maintenance, income tax, capital punishment, abortion, democracy, etc.
In the OT it says “an eye for an eye”. In the NT it says “forgive your enemies”. Does a conservative support capital punishment or not, based on his (alleged) belief in God?

58% of American Catholics and 64% of American Protestants support same sex marriage.
pewforum.org/2016/05/12/chan … -marriage/

There is no logical connection between belief and political position.

It’s possible that a belief in God causes one person to support racism and another to oppose racism … support slavery and oppose slavery …

[phyllo]

Then there is the other elephant in PK’s closet … Capitalism is nihilistic and it’s supported by conservatives who are obsessed with God.

So why would nihilists care about God or why would Christians support a nihilistic economic system?

[phyllo]

@iambiguous

@phyllo

You shrug off details as though they are totally irrelevant.

Small wonder that I stopped talking to you.

So, have you stopped talking to me again too? There are a couple of posts on mine above that you have failed to attend to.

And, as though there is not the liberal rendition of conservatives shrugging off details in turn.

This:

Iambig wrote :
PK is just another objectivist. So, sure, he has to hammer an unimaginably complex world [rooted in dasein, conflicting goods and political economy] into the narrative he has constructed in his head. Just as you and James and Uccisore and the conservative objectivists do from the other end of the political spectrum.

Hell, once you go there, there’s no limit to the absurd things you are likely to say!!

and this :

Iambig wrote :
Bottom line: Objectivists [left and right] don’t really spend much time actually thinking about these things.

They’re too busy being [among other things] idealists. Or worshipping the Lord.

Seemed too silly to merit a response.

This:

Iambig wrote :
And who here is able to apply that argument to a particular moral/political conflict such that the manner in which I construe the role that dasein, conflicting goods and political economy play is obviated.

Just not you, right?

Is you saying that I have nothing to say.
Okay, then I won’t say anything.

This :

Iambig wrote :
And I would be very curious indeed to hear the PKs and the Uccisores explain why their own political dogmas are not an expression of this at all. How, instead, they, and only they, really do understand the one truly optimal manner in which to connects dots [rationally and morally] between “in my head” and “out in the world”.

You start, okay?

Is another invitation to discuss the same shit that we have been discussing for 6 years. I already know all your responses to pretty much everything.

[Uccisore]

@Peter Kropotkin

BTW, I would be curious, please name me a conservative atheist…

Kropotkin

Charles Krauthammer and George Will immediately come to mind.

[above_us_only_sky]

@HaHaHa

Both capitalism and socialism are equally invalid. It’s a lot like saying which is better, HIV or Hepatitis C?

I believe the best system is universal democracy, that means—anachism

[AutSider]

@Uccisore

@Peter Kropotkin

BTW, I would be curious, please name me a conservative atheist…

Kropotkin

Charles Krauthammer and George Will immediately come to mind.

This is what it states on the wiki page for Krauthammer:

He [Krauthammer] also stated that “atheism is the least plausible of all theologies. I mean, there are a lot of wild ones out there, but the one that clearly runs so contrary to what is possible, is atheism”.

As to Peter Kropotkin’s “challenge”: AutSider.

And lol to Chomsky.

[phyllo]

We are The Atheist Conservative, bringing you news, articles, reviews, commentary, and more by our staff of Atheist Conservatives.

On our Editorial Board we have an economist and businessman (King’s College, Cambridge, and Stanford Business School); a lawyer (King’s College, Cambridge, and Yale Law School; member of the California bar); a soldier in the US army who is also our webmaster; a professional writer and former Director of the Institute for the Study of Terrorism (London).

Our staff:

Jillian Becker (jbec…@theatheistconservative.com)
Matthew Slipper (msli…@theatheistconservative.com
C. Gee

theatheistconservative.com/

[Is_Yde_opN]

@above us only sky

Never heard of this Chomsky.
Either way, what chance does an anti-establishment guy have to make it in those institutions in the Capitalistic West Inc.?
Probably just got some little youtube channel from which he is routinely banned by the establishment. The lot of a rebel…

[Is_Yde_opN]

Eternal progress = eternal bitching = eternal tranquility.

[phyllo]

For many people, the idea of a conservative atheist seems like an oxymoron. One explanation could be that we mostly see popular atheist activists speaking out politically over progressive issues like marriage equality or abortion rights for women. Opponents of these issues, who generally identify as conservative, tend to use religious arguments to back their positions. Plus, conservatism is associated with authoritarianism and dogmatic tradition while atheism certainly is not. In any case, the term “atheist” has been politicized over the years, when in fact, it describes a philosophy that has nothing to do with partisan politics.

It’s certainly true that atheists tend to be more liberal and identify with the Democratic Party more naturally. However, that doesn’t mean that conservatives can’t occupy a place within this movement as well.

This debate surged in the past week after the group American Atheists was disinvited from the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC). According to The Christian Post, the atheist group said, “We want to bring the message to CPAC that there are millions of conservatives out there who are turned off and alienated by the conservative movement’s close ties to dogmatic religious beliefs.”

While the numbers to back this claim are not staggering, there is some truth to the statement. According to a recent Pew Forum survey, 19 percent of conservatives are unaffiliated with any particular religion, and 14 percent of atheists identify as conservative.

It’s obvious that atheist and freethinking groups are making efforts to reach out to those not typically affiliated with the movement, but conservatives are apparently not willing to do the same which was made abundantly clear by the actions of CPAC.

All hope is not lost, however. One day, conservatives will be more open to accepting individuals with diverse religious beliefs. In the past few years we have seen more and more popular conservative commentators and political pundits coming out about their lack of belief in a personal god or in tenets of organized religions.

In an interview with The Daily Caller, conservative commentator and Fox News political analyst Charles Krauthammer talked about his religious beliefs: “There was once a philosopher who said, ‘I don’t believe in God, but I fear him greatly.’ That’s about where I am,” Krauthammer told the outlet. “I’ve had a fairly difficult and complicated notion of the deity.”

In a recent essay written for National Affairs titled “Religion and the American Republic,” fellow Fox News political analyst and longtime conservative pundit George Will wrote, “I approach the question of religion and American life from the vantage point of an expanding minority. I am a member of a cohort that the Pew public-opinion surveys call the ‘nones.’ Today, when Americans are asked their religious affiliation, 20 percent—a large and growing portion—say ‘none.’”

Will actually went on to defend nonbelievers, arguing that “an individual’s faith is not a requisite for good citizenship; that democratic flourishing does not require a religious citizenry; that natural rights do not require grounding in God.”

The sentiments of Will and Krauthammer are shared by other conservative writers, bloggers, and pundits such as S.E. Cupp, Anthony Daniels, Heather MacDonald, James Taranto, Charles C.W. Cooke, and, of course, the late Christopher Hitchens.

The principles of limited government, individual responsibility, and an open marketplace are not grounded in religious beliefs, and they are not anathema to atheism. From a humanist perspective, discussions of identity, ideology, or belief must be prefaced by mutual respect. Liberals have to do a better job to not view those who are religious with disdain and animosity, and conservatives must do a better job to not demonize those who don’t share their religious beliefs. In the end, a secular government is the only way to ensure that these values are respected and that the rights of all Americans are protected.

thehumanist.com/commentary/wait … nservative

[phyllo]

PK wrote :
I shall make it simpler for you…
I shall dumb it down for you

John doe is one, one, individual who is a conservative…
Mr. doe doesn’t believe in god… does that negate my point?
Not in any, way, shape and form. which is what you are trying for…
By saying one person, John doe who doesn’t believe in god and is
a conservative, my thesis is wrong… that is where you are heading toward…

If one premise of your syllogism/argument is …

“all swans are white”

… then as soon as someone shows you a black swan, your argument has failed.

Someone who has studied philosophy for 40 years should understand that completely.

[Uccisore]

Well, when you asked for examples of atheist conservatives, it was transparently obvious that the reason you asked was so that when people didn’t provide any such examples (you hoped) you could use that fact to bolster your argument. But now that it seems there are a number of prominent examples, suddenly that means nothing?

It’s nice having documented evidence that liberals can suddenly understand how generalizations work when it’s useful for them to understand it, but otherwise I don’t see what the big deal is- most American conservatives believe in God, just as most Democrats believe in God, because the vast majority of Americans in general believe in God. I imagine most atheists are either leftists or libertarians, but they’re such a small percentage of the population that I don’t see how you can conclude anything about the ideologies based on that.

And anyway, your ‘thesis’ was supposed to be a defense of conservatism, remember?

[iambiguous]

@Uccisore

…most American conservatives believe in God, just as most Democrats believe in God, because the vast majority of Americans in general believe in God. I imagine most atheists are either leftists or libertarians, but they’re such a small percentage of the population that I don’t see how you can conclude anything about the ideologies based on that.

At last, the definitive proof that a God, the God, his God does in fact exist.

Now all that’s left is for him to connect the dots between his God and his Trump.

Then to connect this dot to a particular value judgment of his that liberals are likely to challenge.

And then, finally, on to the biggest dot of them all: the one that connects rational and virtuous behaviors on this side of the grave with immortality and salvation on the other side of it.

And [perforce] why conservatives are far more likely to do this as both His God and his Trump intended.

[Ultimate_Philosophy (Ultimate Philosophy 1001)]

Concerning avatar choice and aesthetics, I believe you perhaps failed to the dots?

Could I be wrong?
How does your avatar feel, to you? What is it’s taste?

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Peter, have you took up excessive alcohol drinking since Trump won?

If the answer is yes, how does that make you feel?

[Peter_Kropotkin]

@Merlin

Peter, have you took up excessive alcohol drinking since Trump won?

If the answer is yes, how does that make you feel?

K: as the years pass, I drink less and less… I spent the 1980s in a bar
and as the years went along, I drank less and less and now, I rarely
have a beer and by rarely, I mean the last beer I drank was during
game 7 of the world series and that was in Oct…and I never touch
anything stronger then a beer, so I hope that answers your question…

Kropotkin

[Mictlantecuhtli]

@Peter Kropotkin

@Merlin

Peter, have you took up excessive alcohol drinking since Trump won?

If the answer is yes, how does that make you feel?

K: as the years pass, I drink less and less… I spent the 1980s in a bar
and as the years went along, I drank less and less and now, I rarely
have a beer and by rarely, I mean the last beer I drank was during
game 7 of the world series and that was in Oct…and I never touch
anything stronger then a beer, so I hope that answers your question…

Kropotkin

Since Trump Won the election how do you spend your days coping with that fact?

[Peter_Kropotkin]

@Merlin

@Peter Kropotkin

@Merlin

Peter, have you took up excessive alcohol drinking since Trump won?

If the answer is yes, how does that make you feel?

K: as the years pass, I drink less and less… I spent the 1980s in a bar
and as the years went along, I drank less and less and now, I rarely
have a beer and by rarely, I mean the last beer I drank was during
game 7 of the world series and that was in Oct…and I never touch
anything stronger then a beer, so I hope that answers your question…

M: Since Trump Won the election how do you spend your days coping with that fact?

K: this is why we have philosophy… to deal with these things…

Kropotkin