I sincerely hope that you encounter pain and suffering in your life, maybe even a long drawn-out painful and terminal disease. You might have a different perspective then. Until then, you have no right to suggest that there is any God that has any part in it.
You are a sick and demented person!
h2o stated:
I am going to let you think about what you said here before I get upset with you. Think about how your perspective might be a little different had you been born deformed with serious health problems and constant pain. Even after all the pain and suffering, how would you feel about people constantly staring at you? Here are a few pictures to help change your mind. These are real people, just like you and I. They just so happened to be unfortunate enough to be born this way.
and you can tell me that there is a loving God behind this! What if this were you? Would it really matter if your parents sinned? Would you really care!?! or would you have other things on your mind?
Sorry to be so graphic but this issue really bothers me. Quit living in dreamland and come back to earth people!
I find a bit of hypocrisy in someone saying ‘I sincerely hope you get a long-lasting, painful and terminal disease’ with one breath, and calling someone else ‘sick and demented’ because of their religious beliefs with the next.
I would agree with you, though, that somoene who had experienced some long-lasting and horrible suffering may have a harder time squaring human suffering with a Loving God. But would that difficulty be from an enlightened perspective, or a clouded bias?
This is a very interesting tread. I’ve spent an hour and a half reading through all of it, so please excuse the length of this post. Religion is something very close to my heart, as I spent over a year and half getting ready to become a Catholic Priest, and 3 of those months were spent in an Irish Seminary.
“Jesus, you have become more important then the things you’ve said.â€
A line from ‘Jesus Christ Superstar’ said by Judas, I would agree completely with this. What Jesus taught in the bible is not what most Christians live by today. They have diluted his ideas to the point were they’re acceptable to most people and have called this bastardisation of them Christianity. Don’t get me wrong I’m no bible bashing fundamentalist. I don’t believe Jesus was without sin, as for ‘Son of God’. I’d say he is, but just as much as every other living person.
I don’t believe the real God is so insecure that he must force us to believe He is the one. A real God knows he’s the one, and would know that the Good will follow Him and recognise Him as such. He would not give ultimatums like, “If you don’t accept me you’ll burn in Hell for all eternity.†This sounds more like something the Devil would say, especially since he knows where his real position in life is, and it isn’t as God. So who would be the one going around telling everybody ‘I’m God’ if you want to live and be happy you better believe it!?
I also won’t worship a God that makes worshipping a precondition to salvation! As he’s not really a God worthy of anybody’s Worship. A real God will see people for who they are, not who they follow. If there is such a thing as a good God we will get into heaven by good works alone! Not by faith!!! Faith is just a façade for evil to hide its true form. People, who are good, go around doing good things. Not sitting in front of a computer like me, giving their 2-cent worth. Again, “You don’t really have to do anything to be saved, but believe I’m God.†Who does that sound like??? Mr D. maybe?
The first shall be last and the last shall be first.Or As it was put in another part of the bible “When you were young somebody dressed you, when you are old somebody will dress you again.â€
To me this is about the Strong, Intelligent or anything where it makes you greater then another. But with time the ‘First’ must give way and become the ‘Last’ or the weakest. It’s about the cycle of life. Your born weak, you become strong, then when your old you become weak again. It makes sense if your weak twice during your life that you would want to have the strong protect you. But why should the new strong protect the weak??? Well because they where also once weak children, whom you protected when you were strong, like your parents protected you. Of course you also protected your own parents, as an example to your children, so they will protect you when you’re old. The “Do to others as you would have them do to you†is based off this premise. While you are strong today you will eventually become weak. So when you do become weak you’ll want to have the “strong†protect you like you protected the weak. Morality is a contract between the strong and weak. But of course this is not how it really works, but is the idea of morality Jesus taught.
This is not true, “All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing,†but I always add, “But can you really call them good men if they do nothing?†This comes back again to people loving Christ more then what he taught! Like another poster quoted “If you love me you’ll keep my commandment. That commandment is that you love one another as I have loved you.†This is what a ‘Christian’ should get upset about, people not loving one another.
Actually Jesus said, “If you offend your brother go seek his forgiveness before you bring offerings to the temple.†These are not the exact words, but it’s the right idea. I can’t seem to find were it was said. But I’m sure it’s in there, somewhere!
This is just sick religious brainwashing at its best! Nothing works better then scaring the shit out of innocent children for spreading the faith!!! Also, calling spirits out of a possessed person is acceptable by all Christian standards. But summoning spirits, as this is what you said was done is wrong! also by those same standards!!! It’s an evil act; there’s no difference between that and sitting down play with a weegee board (don’t know the correct spelling, its one of those things for talking with the dead.)
This was entrapment by God, either way they will discover evil and here’s why. If they eat the apple it’s because of the knowledge gained in the eating. Also if they don’t eat the apple they learn of Deception from the devils actions. So it’s a lose, lose situation. But the real question is why would God allow this to happen? Well the story is most lightly made up, so the God and the Devil don’t exist. Which means this story is complete fiction. Humanity learned evil from each other’s actions. ‘We have laws because people are selfish.’ (can’t remember where I read this). Selfishness is the cause of immorality, which we then call ‘sin’.
This is not true, Original Sin is not biblically correct, because one of the prophets (again) I can’t find the quote, (I’m losing my memory and becoming one of the weak ) But it was basically “You once heard that the sons are damn by there fathers sins†or “The sins of the father are passed to their sonsâ€. “But I tell you no more. Each person will be made righteous by their own actions.â€
This is called the ‘Placebo effect’. Here’s a web-site on it. http://skepdic.com/placebo.html This used in the testing of drugs, but also has been used by other groups to see how the human body can heal itself.
So after all that what do I think? (Like you even care )
I agree with what Polemarchus said on another tread, “God is what we call everything we don’t understand.†While I would agree with this, there is something in me that sees and seeks “God†in the world I live. Henri Nouwen called this “the God in me seeing, the God in the world.†If God is not the grand total of all that is good, then God is not perfect, and if God is not perfect he should not ask for perfection from us. We live in a world were evil exists. I find it difficult to believe that if God had the power to control this world he would allow evil. The only reason for evil is if it’s a tool to teach. But there are some things that just seem cruel, like disable people. Why allow this? (An idea came to me just as I was about to post this, maybe its because this is what will happen a lot more if we start playing with people’s DNA? Just a thought). This is why I feel God is very powerful a life form, but not one which is 100% perfect. I some times think that God will look for forgiveness from us, as we will look for forgiveness and comfort from Him. But I’m assuming that God is a real thing and not just an imaginary friend that helps me makes sense of the world.
Indeed, this thread is day by day more interesting.
He didn’t set this. He respects your choice. Since you don’t accept God, the order He has settled… It means you refuse what He has prepared for you. Which means you accept disorder, Hell. It’s all free will.
He whom really believes in God, loves God. He whom really loved God, follows God. And God doesn’t say you have to believe, sit and wait comfortably for the final Judgement.
Ok. Try this one, then. He whom really believes to be unworthy of something makes him more worthy of that something.
If they listened to God’s word, they would not have known deception. But they didn’t.
Oh really…? I’m not contesting what you quoted there, but I’m saying you misunderstood it. If the Original Sin is not correct, how come we are all born with this inclination to sin, which was not seeded in Adam, at his creation?
Mr. Pax Vitae, are you getting ready to become a Catholic Priest, or did I get that wrong?
As for the rest, namely Skeptic and Clementine, I see you have some objections to what I said. Let’s see. Yes, a child being born with malformations without actually doing anything himself to deserve it, looks unfair. But a child is born of his carnal parents, even if created by God (there are also a few exceptions, like Adam and Eve). Saint Augustine, when seeing his unlegitimate child being so beautiful and healthy, said “God, I put the sin in him. You put the rest.”. It is true, though, that I was not born with any malformations. But this is the only explanation I see.
I also apologize for the length of the post, but so many things are worth being answered Can’t wait for your replies.
There is this post in the Philosophy forum, Animal instincts thread. I think it completes, somehow, many of my posts in this thread, esspecially those on malformed babies, mentally or physically.
P1: I refuse to believe in a God that doesn’t do things exactly the way I want Him to.
P2: I want to believe in God.
C: I will believe in a God that is exactly the way I want Him to be.
Isn't there something wrong with this? I mean, if the topic was anything other than religion, this kind of reasoning would be thrown out. Isn't it at least plausible that an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent being would do things that we don't understand, or would do things that seem less than ideal to humans? I would go the next step and say it's virtually guaranteed.
To break away from rational and look at love and worship, if you'll only worship a Being that does things exactly the way you would have done them, you're really only worshipping your own self-righteousness. Love works the same way.
I don’t see any evidence in the world that God is forcing us to believe in Him. I see tons of evidence that He is letting us believe whatever we want, giving access to the truth if we want it.
DOH! Sorry, I expressed that incorrectly. I spent over a year and a half getting ready, 3 months of which were spent in the seminary. But I left at the end of about the third month. Because some of the things they were teaching are completely off the wall if you actually read what’s in the bible. Also there’s the whole scandal thing. I asked a couple of Priests what they thought. They said, “We saw it coming.†Which really pissed me off, as they didn’t do anything to sort the problem out. They should have turned the Priests causing all the trouble over to the Police. Crime is something the church doesn’t have the right to cover up, nobody has that right. First the Inquisition, then the Crusades, and now all the abuse scandals. The Vatican is an abomination of desolation!
I’ve found over the years of studying the Catholic Church and looking back at all the things in its past, what has kept the Catholic Church such a power is its always been closely associated with the Kings or Governments of powerful countries. Even when it did terrible things good people came along and did good works under the name of the Catholic Church while from a Vatican perspective they were looked upon with suspicion. If you look at most of the great figures of the Catholic Church nearly all were seen as troublemakers in their own time.
Well it says you must accept Jesus if you want to be saved. John 3:16, For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. I do have freewill so can choose Jesus or reject him. We are given freewill only to be told that we must give it up to be saved. I’m not saying this is wrong it’s just a fact.
Will this is where I have a problem with the bible, one minute it’s you need to believe in Jesus [John 3:16]. Then in parable of the of Dividing of the Sheet and Goats it’s all about good deeds. So the best way to approach this is two do good deeds and accept Jesus.
True, but a person who has abused a number of children would definitely believe he’s unworthy of salvation. So this makes him more worthy then someone who knows they’ve lived a reasonably moral life and reckons that they are more then lightly to get into heaven?
Personally I think that it’s all about being “goodâ€. As a good person knows to be humble, but also knows that if there’s a kind God that he will be in his good books.
I disagree, because God never lied to them. Adam and Eve were immortal as the first bold sentence says this, unless God lied to them, but we all know Lying is a sin. Okay, now as for the second bold ‘Ye shall be as gods.’ This might not have been about Eve’s vanity. Eve loved God, Eve worshipped God. We all love God and what makes him great, his ability to be kind, his forgiveness, his love. I’m sure Eve knew she was not like God in all these things. To be told you would become like God is not about vanity. It’s about wanting to be better then what we are. I long to Love like God, have the Forgiveness of God, be as Kind as God. Being offered this is like being told “I can make you perfect!†It’s not about wanting to be the greatest, it’s about wanting to be as kind, loving and forgiving as God. That’s not vanity that’s fulfilment of aspiration!
As for deception, the devil said, ‘Ye shall not surely die.’ This was a lie! He also claimed that God was deceiving them by telling Adam and Eve they would die if they eat the fruit. Which of course was true. So if Adam and Eve had no knowledge of Good or Evil, how do they know this is a moral choice? Did Adam and Eve even know if there was such a thing as sin? Could they really understand the dilemma given to them? They had never been deceived before, they didn’t know evil existed. They have only ever been exposed to the truth, now a choice is given, with 2 options, where each option is opposite to the other. This is new to them. Without knowledge of evil this is a very difficult choice to make. But being told you can become like the one you love more then life itself is a very tempting offer.
How long did Adam last before sinning??? If sin weren’t in Adam or Eve’s nature then they wouldn’t have eaten the apple. If it’s only because the devil tricked them, then I think God should have shown more of his forgiveness back then. He could have stopped a lot of the world’s problems by teaching Adam and Eve enough about evil so they don’t get duped. Also he should really just have punished the devil, as if the devil hadn’t interfered no sin would have been committed, as you’ve said, “sin was not in there nature.†It’s like knowing there’s somebody in your neighbourhood that goes around corrupting people, but not telling your children to be careful and giving them the knowledge needed to avoid corruption. If you ask me Adam sinned because of God’s neglect. God did not teach them about how they could be tricked. Under Catholic dogma this would only have been a venial sin, not a mortal sin. A mortal sin requires full moral understanding of the sin that will be committed, and once this is understood correctly then if you still commit the sin it’s a mortal sin. If you don’t know about evil how can you know are doing is wrong?
The point I was trying to make was, a real God knows good people will worship him automatically. So making it a precondition to salvation is only something a God with low self-esteem or highly vain would do. Do you think God is not Humble? If a great sports star was to say, “You should all worship me because I’m the greatest football player ever.†Would you not think he’s a little pretentious and full of his own self-importance? Being worshipped as God, too God is almost embarrassing form Him. All he wants is for the Good to triumph.
Your option C could be applied to me. But if I can invent a God that is better then the real God, I’m going to be pissed with the real one, as he won’t be 100% perfect. If I can find a flaw in God, then either I’m completely nuts or God is not perfect. If he’s not perfect then he shouldn’t be looking for blind adoration, but should look for ways to better himself. Hitler wanted blind obedience, the Catholic Church wanted blind obedience, and look at with both of these have done. Now a God that wants blind obedience, imagine the damage that he could cause if he wasn’t the real God.
No, but it’s the exact same as car insurance. You don’t have to buy it, but if you don’t want to go to jail you’ll need to get it! And do you know what they do to people in jail? This is like God saying, “Okay don’t believe in me, off to hell with you, and do you know what they do to people in hell for all eternity?†It’s no better then coercion. You have freewill, yet if you choose to use it against the will of God then your in trouble.
I can understand your reasoning but you don’t know my perspective so that is unfair. I watched my mother go through such a death. I have no desire for anyone in this world to have to go through such a miserable death. The hypocricy is in the ignorance of someone who comments on something that they know nothing about. There is no amount of sin that can justify the misery that my mother suffered in her death. There is no amount of sin that can justify God creating a human being to live in misery. Until anyone experiences that misery, they have no room to make justificatons. Make sense?
As for sick and demented? Sick and demented is any belief that there is justification for these happenings!
Pax is absolutely right! There is no justification in punishing Adam for doing the inevitable and there is absolutely no JUSTIFICATION in punishing the rest of humanity for the sins of Adam. It is a non-sensical story that provides no logical explanation, except that God is an a-hole or the person that made it up was an ignorant idiot!
(I need to go to the rant forum and blow off some steam!)
Well, a day ago you said you did, that's what I was concerned about. I see now that you were just saying to make a certain kind of impact, which I can respect.
I think people who haven’t witnessed this sort of thing are fully capable of having an opinion about it, and fully justified in expressing that opinion. I don’t want to make you mad, but frankly I think you’re experiences are more likely to cloud your judgement than give you some special clarity. To make an analogy, if the only people who got to voice an opinion on race issues were people who had been violently assaulted by Eskimos, that wouldn’t be very objective at all, and Eskimos would likely end up in a bad spot!
I definately understand why you would say that, but I can’t say I think it’s the best judgement.
Let me ask you something. Honestly, if there were a perfectly logical and sound argument that showed how a benevolent God and horrible suffering could coexist, would hearing that argument make you feel any better about the situation, or change your opinion of God? Considering all you’ve been through, do you think you would acknowledge that argument as being sound if you were exposed to it?
Skeptic, I’m sorry for your mother. But I think Uccisore is right. This is clouding your vision.
This makes him more worthy than he was before. But the secret is honesty. You must really feel sorry for what you did, rejecting sin. Don’t start living your life in sin and saying, “No prob. Right before I die, I’ll be sorry for my sins and God will forgive me.”. No.
Remember that the one who told this to Eve has had the same thought. I have some doubts that Lucifer was kicked out of Heaven because he wanted to be as kind, forgiving and loving as God.
God gave them life, God gave them The Garden of Eden. The devil only gave them words. Knowing this, without any knowledge of morality, what would you choose?
That is why they were thrown away from Eden. Because they had no reason at all to believe the serpant. God gave them everything, and they knew it. They had no reason to disobey. Why should God have shown more of His forgiveness? Forgiveness is not something calculated, so you can’t say “He should have forgiven them.”.
You have free will, and inclination to sin. The more you sin, the less free willed you are. It seems natural to me to follow one whom wants your best, especially that He is the one whom created you, whom knows you best.
Good for you, but that is an ignorant statement. Adolf Hitler had an opinion as well, so does Bin Laden. Both were based on their religious beliefs.
hmmm . . . Nope, you are still missing the point. My experiences don’t count. The pain and suffering of those whom have encountered these scenarios are the only one’s whom I would consider to make a judgement. Not me, not you, no one, except those whom have had to deal with it. How about this? Why don’t you take a trip down to your local hospital and tell all the intensive care patients that they are suffering because God is punishing them for the sins of their parents or even for their own sins. hmmm . . . I wonder what kind of response you would get!? While your at it, take a trip to the homes of the parents of a child born with spina bifida (a congenital birth defect in which the spine is exposed). The child is wracked by constant pain, the brain hardly functions because of the fluid that collects. The child will only live a few short painful years. Tell that to the parents of such a child. They would probably tear you to pieces right then and there. Your flaw in logic is that you have not experienced these scenarios so there is no possible way that you can make such a judgement (nor has God ).
This is a very poor analogy. You have just related horrible pain and suffering to eskimos!? Yeah, you might have some eskimos with evil intentions. It would be poor logic to assume that all eskimos are evil people based on a small sample. Pain and suffering, however, does not change. It is always negative. There are not some pockets of ‘good’ pain and suffering!?!
Yes. A logical and sound argument would make me feel better and would also change my opinion of God (that is, if I had reason to believe there was a God). This is where we differ. You believe something despite the lack of a logical and sound argument. This is called dogma. Look it up! Until you have a logical argument, there is no reason to believe any such thing. Quit living in the delusions of the bible. That is what clouds your mind! Try taking a step outside yourself. Not everybody has the easy life like you and I. The bible solves no problems. It only creates a false sense of guilt, a false sense of security, and a false sense of hope. The worst of it’s problems is the false sense of hate.
Again, yes, but until then, no.
I will no longer respond to this thread until I see a rational argument. How do you debate with irrational people? It is ridiculous. h2o, it has been fun debating with you, but you know just as well as I, that you have not yet put up a rational argument for any of my points. You have admitted it several times already. You have even told me that logic is impertinent to the discussion. I cannot argue with that. If you want to believe that then go ahead, but that is your problem.
One more quick example of senseless suffering. I stole this quote from a Polemarchus thread.
“[A] dog, struck by a car, lies yapping pitifully on the highway, its back broken. Death would be merciful, but the organism continues to function. It is senseless, unendurable torment, serving no purpose.” - Truth and Existence, Michael Gelvin
Where is God in this? Where is the love? Where is the mercy?
The poor dog knows nothing but pain and cannot understand or find reason. It cannot understand why? Why, that when it tries to stand, only more pain comes; the spine now protruding from it’s body. It begins to drag itself with it’s two front legs, not realizing that the two hind legs are no longer in it’s control. It finally must stop as it’s inner organs are beginning to leak from it’s body. The body will no longer provide the strength to move on. The confused little dog only knows that it wants to continue walking home to it’s family. If it could only get there, things would be better. Pain and confusion. The dog cries out in pain and only wishes the pain to cease. It does not.
Well this will be good news for the former Cardinal of Boston.
You’ve missed my point. Yes the devil wanted to be God, but he wants the glory that is based on self-pride, that’s why he’s always going around telling people he’s God! While Eve who was humble, and out of this humbleness had a low self-opinion of herself. She wanted to be like God in thinks like Love, Goodness, and Forgiveness. This is not vanity! Which is the devil’s reason he wants to be God. Eve just wants to love more, forgive more, to be a better person. It was her naivety that caused her to be tricked. Not a desire to be better then God or to be God, she just want to be the best person she could be, and eating the apple seemed like the right thing at the time.
Do you not aspire to be like God? To not sin anymore, be able to Love like God, Forgive like God? I know I do, but I’m not after the position or title of “God†like the devil.
“In the beginning there was the Wordâ€
You seem to have not read my full argument.
If they only sinned because the devil tricked them, then it’s the devils fault. Adam and Eve DID NOT KNOW EVIL!!! SO HOW COULD THEY KNOW THEY WHERE BEING TRICKED. (Sorry for shouting).
No, the more I sin, the more my will is free from God’s will, so is my own. The more I sin the truer I am being to who and what I am. Sin is to reject God’s will.
Also look at any teenager and see how they treat their parents. They know what is what, and to them their parents don’t have a clue about how the world works.
This is a flawed analogy, as God is everywhere! It’s because of my addiction to sin I turn to God. I’m still sinning while I talk with God asking him to make me stronger. Asking him not to lead me into temptation, but to deliver me from evil. I turn to God because I know I’m in sin or evil. If I was not, then I wouldn’t need God’s help.
Haha, okay, Face east and start walking in a straight line around the earth. If you don’t stop you’ll eventually come back to were you started from, from the west while you where only looking east!
I don’t see the woman wanting to be kind, loving and forgiving. I rather see her wanting wisdom, wanting to satistfy her belly and wanting to satisfy her eyes.
Yes, the Word of God, not of the devil. The Word of the Creator, not of a creation.
As a matter of fact, I understood your reasoning. Of course they did not know evil, they didn’t have to know evil. Instead, they introduced evil by not following God. They could know they were being tricked by the contradiction they were facing: eat/ don’t eat of that fruit.
Actually, the more you sin, the more you follow your carnal desires, which were not given to Adam at creation. The more you sin, the more you turn your face from God, and turn it towards yourself, a mere creature. Sin is not your true nature.
God is not in sin.
And as for the East/West thing, it’s the direction that matters. If you choose to follow God, you will understand sin, and overcome it. If you choose to follow sin, you won’t understand God. It’s not entirely like in Geography…
Yes, Clementine, you’re right. God alone knows the nature of God. Now we’re only discussing what He has shown us. I am surprised, though, as you didn’t believe in God…
I see women being ingenuous and naive, like a child who doesn’t understand what is good and what is bad. But of course, each one sees it the way they want to.
I don’t think God has shown anything, it’s all a man interpretation/imagination
As we discussed before, I don’t believe in God. When I said that I meant that we can only guess what God is (if he is to be anything). Remember, I see God as a possible character of a story so am able to deny his existence, otherwise I would have to state ‘god doesn’t exist’ and leave it as it is.
Why would I do that? They wouldn’t be in a right mind to accept such a thing any more than you are. Even if it were true that God was punishing them, and even if I could prove it, they’d have a purely emotional reaction irrelevant to the issue.
LIke I asked the last person who brought up HItler ina conversation with me, what exactly is your point? Am I a genocidal maniac? Is everybody who believes in God? Is everything Hitler believed automatically wrong because of the things he did? Does any of this have anything at all to do with a reasonable conversation of the Problem of Evil?
That has nothing to do with it. For one thing, you haven’t a clue what I have and have not experienced, other than your apparent assumption that anybody who’s had suffering in their life would agree with you. What’s more, even if my life has been nothing but roses and sunshine, that’s no reason I can’t discuss the Problem of Evil.
No, I've related a fictional example of bias brought on by suffering to a real example of bias brought on by suffering.
But you’ll only accept such an argument if it’s brought to you by someone who’s undergone as much horrible suffering as you. What kind of logical criteron is that?
These statements all assume your conclusion, that the Bible is false.
I know I said that I wouldn’t respond unless I heard a rational argument but I couldn’t let this go.
hmmm . . . somebody likes to take things out of context. The point is that opinions mean nothing. Hitlers opinion led him to kill 8 million Jews. It really doesn’t matter to me what your opinion is but as soon as you start going around telling people that they are suffering because they made a few mistakes in their life, you have crossed a line. Most people are gullible enough to believe you and that is just not fair.
So your relating people who have been attacked by Eskimos to people whom have been attacked by suffering. Right? You are illustrating that people who have been attacked by eskimos would have a biased perspective of Eskimos. Right? You’re absolutely correct. I met an Eskimo once and he was a nice guy. Proves your point, right? So those people who have been attacked with suffering would have a biased perspective of suffering. Right? So obviously, we know from an outside perspective that suffering isn’t always bad. Sometimes it is a good thing. Right?
Let me make another scenario, to prove your point. Let’s say that there was this guy named Adam. Lets say that God told Adam not to eat a piece of fruit. Ok? Adam did anyways. Later on in history, a baby is born with a horrible excrutiatingly painful disease. He is also born with grotesque malformities and the inability to ever leave his house b/c he is quadrapelegic. You stroll over to tell the poor guy about Jesus on his 18th birthday.
You tell him, “God made you the way you are because there was this guy named Adam who disobediently ate a fruit. If you take Jesus as your savior he will forgive you for Adam’s sin.”
The kid says, “Why did God punish me for Adam’s sin?”
You tell him, “Well, he also punished you for your future sins.”
The kid says to you, “But why didn’t he punish you, too?”
You are left speechless. The kid rejects your plea for him to accept Jesus, as he cannot believe that a benevolent God would do such a thing. He dies shortly after, only to relive his life of suffering eternally in hell. Justice has been served! Thank you God for your perfect Justice!
As I said before, I have suffered nothing in my lifetime. Maybe a few migraines here and there but nothing that I would consider a punishment for my sins and I can guarantee you I am no angel in that department. I’m sure he will get me one of these days though.
Yes, I assume it is false as I have no reason to assume it is true. You prove it is true and I will change my mind. I swear. (with my right hand on the bible.)
) But it was basically “You once heard that the sons are damn by there fathers sins†or “The sins of the father are passed to their sonsâ€. “But I tell you no more. Each person will be made righteous by their own actions.â€
)
