@Artimas
I could just as easily say freewill is Christian indoctrination, or globalist, the idea that our biology, race, sex and upbringing have little-no bearing on who we are and our behavior, the notion that the past has next to nothing to do with our identity.
Here it sounds like you’re admitting determinists are still exercising their freewill subconsciously.
Behaviorally does it really matter whether one believes they have it or not?
Determinism is a descriptive position, not prescriptive.
Determinists don’t necessarily believe we should try to align our behavior with what we believe about our neuropsychological nature, they only necessarily believe that our behavior is the result of our nature reacting, or responding situationally, and that our nature was formed by our past biological and psychosocial conditioning, nurturing, whether we’re conscious of it or not.
It’s an explanation for why they think, feel and do what they do, not them trying to act in accordance with some psychoanalytic construct of themselves they’ve accepted.
Determinists aren’t necessarily anymore rigid than indeterminists.
Determinists permit deviation.
If determinists diverge from what they believe to be their norm, this too they will chalk up to their nature, which they recognize can be complex, dynamic, fluid and so at times ambiguous, but still causal, whereas indeterminists will (tend to) attribute it to freewill, metaphysical spontaneity, partly or fully acting independently of one’s nature, that is if they admit they have a nature at all.
Determinism isn’t anti-deviation from one’s beliefs about oneself, it is just an explanation for how we came to be as we are, whether one is or isn’t presently conforming with their norm, or whether the determinist believes what they believe to be their norm needs to be reassessed in light of compounding aberrations.
For me the freewill vs determinist debate is a lot like two guys watching this dancer:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RSsoTJA6cA[/youtube]
One guy declares she’s twirling clockwise, the other insists she’s twirling anticlockwise.
So which one is it?
The reality is: it can validly be interpreted either way.
She’s turning both/neither, it’s ambiguous, yet our brain normally compels us to interpret it as wholly one or the other at a time.
Well, a lot of reality works like that, perhaps especially the dimensions of reality philosophers have tasked themselves with exploring and making sense of: the meta.
It’s why the philosophical community rarely arrives at widespread consensus on anything, even after millennia of discourse on the same subjects, by and large these riddles remain unresolved, which’s not to say everything the scientific community says is set in stone either, but I digress.
Absolute vs relative, objective vs. subjective…freewill vs. determinism, nearly every regular on these boards has an opinion, and they remain just that, an opinion.
And everyone has an argument and sometimes it can be said one has gotten the better of it, but fundamentally these disputes remain unsettled, and probably always will be for the foreseeable future as long as man is man.
Really they’re humbling, or they ought be, because we’re coming to the limits of what we can know.
If anything they ought to make us all the more empathetic, openminded, tolerant of a broader array of perspectives, but instead as so often happens on these boards, they only serve to make us even more stubborn and unwavering, and in my opinion, that is real a shame.
We don’t know it all, not even close, but isn’t that the source of all true philosophy and science, it’s been said, that sense, that feeling of wonder?