I think it depends on what kind of experiences one has in childhood. I had a happy and normal childhood, actually. We were just playing adults, just one of the games children like to play. Teenage years were a different story, but most teenage years are bound to be turbulent no matter how you look at it, so no, I don’t see a direct connection between looking up to movies to learn proper gender role behavior and searching for truth. These were just imitation games children play.
She was a manipulative woman and he let her get to him. Would that be a good lesson for her if there were no one to defend her? I think so, even if only to expose her to the kind of men that are out there (though I think someone like her would be more careful in doing so without having public presence). Was he a brave man, or a coward? Personally, I think he was just short-sighted guy who reacted without thinking. To the general public, of course, he was a coward. But there is another interpretation and that is that he was brave enough to challenge social norms and pay the consequences, an interpretation that some of the men will adopt. But was she a real threat to him? He acted like she was, so I guess she was to him, and by doing so, he displayed his own position in relation to her - in that he saw her as a real threat to him. In a lot of confrontations, (display of) judgment of the level of threat presented is an important element. Bravado displays are about discovering the other’s weaknesses and gauging their level of penetrability or weakness. You can see a lot of that happening in politics as well - taunting tactics, a kind of psychological scouting.
I don’t think so either. That’s sort of what I was getting at when I told AutSider that evasion, not aggression, is by far the most widely used and successful survival technique in the animal kingdom. I think alpha-ness or aggression is a useful strategy for establishing a pecking order within a group (ensuring that you end up on top) but survival is too broad a term for there to be just one most-useful strategy.
Yeah, you’ve never struck me as the kind of person who would run and complain. You seem like the kind of person who wants to stand her own ground and be self-sufficient. ← Cool stuff!
Like night and day, huh?
Geez, sounds harsh. It also sounds like a good way to shame a son if the father ever just felt like it: create a bundle that you know too heavy.
So Tom, you decided to stop being a pilgrim? Now you’re a pilgrim seeker?
Reminds me of my sisters. When they were young, they’d always play with pillows, pretending they were guys. I remember the older sister holding the pillow out in front of her and slapping it: “How dare you!” she’d say. The young sister would always mimic exactly everything the older sister would do. So she followed suit: slapped her pillow and said “How dare you!” I thought to myself: “You guys have been watching way too much TV.”
Ever thought of calling this guy, or finding him on facebook or some such? Say: Hey, remember me? The crazy girl who spontaneously slapped you that one time?.. well, sorry.
Hmm, well what do you know.
But you don’t think there can be some women who are more aggressive than others as a genetic predisposition? I mean, it doesn’t have to result in a mini-civilization being built (from the sounds of it, there was no split between alpha and beta males either), just some women being more intimidating to other women, and consequently those other being becoming more submissive.
Well, to give you a summary of what I said: the first three women–M.I.A., Madonna, and Gaga–strike me as very alpha in their personalities, and I’m not particularly attracted to that. The last three women–Chibi, Brittany, and Sharon–are not just goth but seem to have (based on interviews I’ve seen and articles I’ve read) a mushy, kind, playful inner personality–very beta-like–and that I am attracted to ← Not just beta, but a tough exterior that hides the beta within.
Well, I don’t really see it this way. I see it more of as a part of harsh realities of life. I think that before social protections in place, it was not uncommon for women to get hurt, and sometimes, seriously hurt (probably still is in parts of the world), and so they had to resort to much nastier/sinister manipulation games.
Yes.
He was not in my class, so I don’t remember his name. But I think we’re even.
This is more like brawn vs. brains situation. More aggressive may get ahead, but it may take more than brawn to stay on top.
nope! … never stopped being a pilgrim … and didn’t just start to be a seeker
Manni seemed to trigger the name change … she helped me better understand the potency … or lack of potency … in Naming Conventions and the perceptions they emit.
the word pilgrim emits strong religious electromagnetic waves
the word seeker emits strong non-religious electromagnetic waves
Well, if we’re done talking about alpha chicks and beta chicks in the music industry for the moment, I’d like to switch gears and talk about alpha and beta men in the music industry.
Ladies, I want your thoughts on this.
Anyone like Twenty One Pilots? I think they’re great. Almost every one of their songs has reached the charts on the radio, at least in my part of the world. The lead singer, Tyler Joseph, strikes me as beta–and he doesn’t hide it–in fact, it almost seems to be part of his act, an almost child-like innocence that he likes to put into his art.
I’m also a big fan of Mother Mother–they too are quite prolific–and the lead singer of this band, Ryan Guldemond, strikes me as alpha. Not really like a bully or anything–in fact, he seems like a pretty nice guy, fun to hang around with–but very “manly”:
As an aside, I wonder what the main message in Guns for Hands is. Is Tyler making a political statement in this one? A statement against the second amendment, perhaps?
Anyway, there you go: a couple guys from the music industry–one alpha, one beta (in my obviously biased opinion).
Magnus, I don’t reject history. It was my 2nd major in college. You’re just shaping everything to fit your view. You have 0 critical thinking skills. But preach on preacher. Cling to your ideals and never let them go. Its all you have and philosophy doesn’t suit you. If you can make your point without saying people’s names, you should ask if you really have one and if so if it is coherent.
You have nothing but a wordgun with which you shoot words and phrases at the other that you think have the potential to provoke negative feelings. You may customize them a little bit so that they don’t appear canned and repetitive and applicapable to anyone but it doesn’t change the fact that they have no substance whatsoever. You may be familiar with phrases that can shame but you’re utterly clueless when they are applicable and when they are not.
Considering that you are our resident hedonist who reduces everything to feelings it makes perfect sense that you would respond to other people hurting your feelings, intentionally or not, by retaliating in the form of hurting their feelings back.
You have absolutely no interest in truth and every interest in preserving the delusional idea that you’re nothing negative and everything positive.
Yes, dear Mr. R, you have interest in history even though your behavior is in direct opposition to it.
Hedonists such as you were looked down upon, they were despised, throughout history. Not only that but they always signalled the death of civilization.
I took it for granted at the opening of this thread that the terms “alpha” and “beta” would be relatively non-problematic. But I have since seen that different people have different definitions. I have defined these terms in a few places throughout this thread as follows:
alpha: possessing/displaying the characteristics of aggression and domination over other people.
beta: opposite of alpha.
Others here seem to have defined “alpha” and “beta” in terms of social/functional rolls (as opposed to personalities), some with inner toughness, some with sexuality (i.e. manliness/femininity), and so on. But the above are my definitions.
I don’t know why I decided to couch this whole discussion in music–I guess it was part of what inspired me to start this thread (I listen to music a lot and one of things I like to do is research the artists I listen to, and sometimes I think about the female artists and how alpha/beta they are)–but needless to say I am not correlating alpha/beta with musical talent–technically music doesn’t have anything to do with it.
No, he was a stranger. He grabbed me from behind on the street and let me think that he had a gun to my back. It was dark outside. We walked like that for about two blocks. The police said that it was probably a metal pipe of some kind. Somehow I began to intuit that it wasn’t a gun and reached up to feel for it. That’s when we came to an area with parked cars. He threw me on the ground and that’s when I began to fight back screaming. Too much traffic to be heard but I kept on screaming and fighting him.
