Accusations alone prove Nothing

Again, I’m not demonizing people who generalize, or generalization itself, you have to contextualize what I’m saying.
I’m critiquing very specific generalizations.

I don’t think I ever said, nor implied ‘liberals’ (or as I prefer to call them now: progressives, since liberal etymologically means and historically meant free, like free from authority, and still means free in some contexts, and arguably ought to mean free in all contexts, to avoid confusion) are the only ones who twist logic, just they seem to be exclusively employing this form of twisted logic, which’s what the OP is about.
If you want to start a thread about the kinds of twisted logic conservatives and other ideologies and parties employ, than by all means, I’m not going to try and stop you, but this thread is primarily for addressing a specific sort of progressive illogic.

Bottom line is: people are stupid, leftists especially.

Gloominary:
*Refuses to talk about the injustice committed by society against men in the OP.
Instead brings up an injustice committed by society against women.
Look I’m done wasting my time and energy on you.
You and your posts aren’t welcome in this thread."

K: You do not wish me in this thread for a very obvious and clear reason…
you only want to hear your thoughts and feelings vindicated…
I am not telling you what you want to hear…
you want a long, pointless litany to confirm your bias that men are being
deprived of their rights… again another conspiracy theory…

(and I used the word litany on purpose:
Litany: a form of prayer consisting of a series of
supplications to go and with a set responses by the congregegation…)

you say, oh lord, we men have been deprived of our rights
and the congregegation is supposed to respond with a set response,
oh lord, we have been deprived of our rights by those evil (whatever
the latest conspiracy theory is) the congregegation here are the small minds that
litter this place with nonsense and conspiracy theories…no wonder James left…
ILP has become a wasteland of small minds and conspiracy theorists who can only
complain how they have been wronged… oh lord, see how I have been wronged…
because of… Jews or men who hate themselves or whatever nonsense juvenile minds
can create because they have such small minds they can’t think past this…

you have a small mind thinking that you have a great mind…

I’m here to tell you… you have a small mind…

Kropotkin

You’re right.
Now please leave me and my little right-wing conspiracies in peace.

I agree with you.

You may enjoy this video (actually it will probably piss you off):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WALEvNCMsI[/youtube]

Men are completely expendable. “Women and children first”, but no mention of men because who cares. Nearly all workplaces accidents are men. 7 government sites for women and zero for men. Men are 80% of completed suicides, but no one gives a shit because they’re big strong men who don’t need help and by needing help you’ve relinquished you’re designation as being man. It’s absolute insanity!

It’s the mindset of using labels that is damaging. I just berated Prism for categorizing all objections as coming from “theists or agnostics” like it would matter. Tom has embarked on crusade via his signature to enlighten folks that WHO authors an aphorism is not important. People, generally, have gotten it into their heads that WHO is more important than the WHAT. If a doctor says something, it matters more that he’s a doctor than the sensibility of what he’s said. I’m constantly battling folks who pigeonhole me into a culturally stigmatized category where I can be quickly and summarily dismissed without needing to read what I say. “Oh, you’re one of them, well they are stupid, so you are stupid and therefore whatever you say has no merit.” Even my own parents unconsciously do it: “oh you’re just a stupid kid who eternally needs our guidance and couldn’t possibly have any novel thoughts of value to us.”

I’d like to be as nameless and faceless as possible and honestly, I’d prefer to be member # 8549785 than any recognizable name because I want the focus to be on my content and not me, but it’s impossible in the day and age, or maybe it’s always been that way, idk.

Satyr dismissed me because I’m christian.
Anomaly dismissed me because I’m atheist.
UrGod probably thinks I’m liberal.
Silhouette may believe I’m conservative.

The truth is I don’t fit in any of the prepared boxes, but that’s ok since I don’t want a label anyway. Serendipper just means I stumble into ideas by chance and it’s nothing of my own doing to warrant a parade or congratulation. I prefer humble usernames where possible.

Me too.

True.

You said “According to statistics mainstream liberals like to use”.

Why use the qualifier “progressive”?

I couldn’t resist this.

This is not an example of an injustice committed by society against women the way this ‘me too’ movement is a an example of an injustice committed by society against men, this is an example of an injustice committed by a lone individual, a judge, against a woman, that was swiftly corrected by society.

Again, there is no rape culture in America, at worst, there is a rape sub-sub culture, or a few individuals who hold some sick beliefs, not a culture.
If you walk around any neighborhood in the US, it doesn’t matter if it’s a black or white neighborhood, rich or poor, secular or religious, if you held a sign in public saying: ‘it’s okay to rape unconscious women, boys will be boys’, we all know you would not make it out of that neighborhood in one piece before the end of the day.
The only rape culture in America is in prisons and gangs.
And in Canada, even hardened criminals take rape seriously, inmates who’ve raped women immediately have to go into PC, because if they don’t, they’ll end up in the hospital or morgue.

Of course we must protect women’s, and men’s rights, but we can’t do that if we continually exaggerate women’s plight and downplay men’s, we have to put them on equal ground.

It’s a conspiracy theory what progressives refer to as ‘patriarchy’, or what could just as easily be referred to as chivalry, was anti-woman, if anything it was more pro-woman than man.
Chivalry prescribed rigid roles for women, and men, and men received the more difficult role.
Whatever extra power men were given, was proportionately accompanied by extra responsibility, including the duty to serve and protect women and children.

Now ‘white, male privilege’ is a conspiracy theory if I ever heard one.

Nah, you actually seem like a decent thinker - you couldn’t be conservative :wink:

Lots of people lie, cheat, steal and a few murder, and a few people will approve of lying, cheating, stealing and even murdering, and whenever they do, we don’t refer to it as an example of lying, cheating, stealing and murdering culture, because it’s not, it’s an example of a few scattered, isolated individuals and tiny groups acting independently of and rebelling against culture, which’s decidedly against such behavior, and the same thing goes for rape.

I mean where is this rape culture they speak of?
How many artists, books, movies and television shows are out there promoting rape?
Out of every thousand or million perhaps a few.
Who hear thinks it’s okay to have sex with unconscious women?
Can I get a show of hands?
Only a handful of retards, trolls and sociopaths on social media think it’s okay, and they have to hide behind anonymity, because if they admitted their views out in public they’d be lynched.

Now there’s absolutely nothing wrong with speaking out against people who’ve raped you (preferably shortly after it happens), and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with listening to women, and men who’ve claimed to have been raped, and if they’re our friends and family, we’ll probably be inclined to take their side, it’s perfectly natural, but what if your son, brother, boyfriend or father was accused of rape?
You might not be so quick to throw them under a bus.
At the same time, we have to be just as cautious not to throw men, and women who may be innocent under a bus like we’re being encouraged to by progressives and the progressive MSM.
Until a public confession has been made, or a guilty/nonguilty verdict reached, we have no objective way of knowing what occurred between any two individuals.
It’s one persons word against another.

There will always be people who commit rape, and there will always be people who falsely accuse other people of committing rape and other horrible crimes.
We have to be on the lookout for both kinds of terrible behavior, one is not any worse than the other, both are egregious.
A woman, or man who lies about being raped, is just as bad as a rapist, they’re every bit as worthy of our contempt and wrath, and they deserve to go to jail for many, many years.

We will never eliminate all abhorrent behavior, and not all abhorrent behavior is culturally rooted, like progressives tend to imagine, much of it is biologically rooted, as well as in choices people make, including the way they choose to see reality, but if we’re vigilant, we can help reduce it.
However we have to be careful that in trying to reduce one form of bad behavior, we don’t give free reign to another one.

Let’s face it, women have it pretty damn good in the west, better than men do in many ways, as Stefan Molyneux and others are pointing out.
Progressives crying wolf and inventing boogie men like ‘rape culture’, trying to trash and undermine western civilization, harms us more than helps.
The grass is often less green, as flawed our civilization is, it’s arguably better, for women in particular, than any alternative that’s out there.
If western culture is so flawed, so corrupt, why fight for it?
And arguably we’re not fighting for it, which’s why we’re letting millions of illegals and refugees in, people who perhaps know a thing or two about what real rape culture looks like.

Woah! I disagree that they are the same and deserve the same punishment. The liar should be publically shamed and threatened with jail time for any re-occurant behavior, but they are not culpable for the actions of others who do not wait for the guilty verdict before they trash someone’s life due to that lie.

If you rape someone, you damage, or destroy their lives.
If you publically accuse someone of rape in todays culture, you damage, or destroy their lives.
It’s slander, it’s criminal, it’s grossly negligent/sadistic behavior, and needs to be treated with the utmost seriousness.

If someone’s caught making something that serious up, whether it’s out of envy, jealousy or spite, for fame, fortune or sympathy, I have no sympathy for them.
They’re a sick, demented freak, and they should be thrown in prison.

Perhaps it should be made illegal to fire someone on the basis of accusation alone.

Serendipper

Because it’s systemic.

This isn’t just an isolated phenomenon, it’s part of a broader political agenda called progressivism, which’s at least partly if not wholly anti-white, anti-Christian and anti-male.
Progressivism turns Nazism on its head, inverts it.
Non-whites are good, whites are bad, atheists or matriarchal pagans are good, monotheists or patriarchal pagans are bad, religion is bad, spirituality is good, women are strong, men are weak, the rich and powerful are bad, the poor and weak are good, children are born good, parents and culture corrupts them, civilization is bad, nature is good and so on.
Now it’s an ideology, no ideology is perfect.
When it comes to socialism and environmentalism, I’m mostly on board, altho I have my own vision of how, and to what extent they should be implemented.

Nazism was a return to traditional values in a modern economic, scientific and technological context, where as progressivism, as the name implies, was new.
However, I suspect there have always been progressive currents and undercurrents in culture. Christianity was progressive in some respects before it was politicized by Rome.
Progressivism came long after conservatism, and after the capitalist, liberal, socialist and fascist revolutions of the early modern and modern epochs.
economically it originally allied itself more with socialism than capitalism, but today it’s less concerned with economics, and if anything has allied itself more with capitalism than socialism.

Civilizations tend to start out conservative and become progressive as they, well, ‘progress’, or become more sophisticated.
I don’t see one as wholly good/evil, they’re like yang and yin, and while I don’t think everything that happens in society and politics can easily or needs to be lumped in with one or the other, it can be a convenient to.
Going to extremes in direction, thinking and values is what ruins civilizations, finding the right mean between these two extremes for the right people, place and time is what allows civilizations to flourish.

Serendipper

I know, labels can blind us to things as they really are, as much as help us understand them.
Perhaps the key is to continually postconceptualize (empiricism), rather than preconceptualize (dogmatism), or not conceptualize at all (philosophical skepticism/zen).

I understand that point, it’s a fair position to take.

Just be yourself, and to hell with what people think.

That’s cool, you have a style and it works for you.
Myself rather than dispense with labels altogether, I try to make them more dynamic and sophisticated, but yea, labels can only get you so far, at some point we just have to be, not overanalyze things, which’s easier said than done on a philosophy forum.

:laughing: =D> I had a good laugh at that

I was merely basing that probability on the gun thread where you may have concluded I’m conservative because I defend gun rights, but I’m now relieved to learn that those odds were poorly calculated :slight_smile:

“Just be yourself, and to hell with what people think.”

^ Exactly.

I stopped giving a fuck about what anyone else thinks about me a long time ago. Anyone who doesn’t like me as I am can go fuck off and I am better for it.

My own radical honesty and not giving a fuck is a very nice litmus test of others. Saves me a lot of time and effort not having to sort through the shit.

True, progressivism does seem an entity. Although, that’s what the progressives say about the white men. And that’s what the nazis say about the jews. Men say it about the feminists.

The Jews are an entity.
The Nazis are an entity.
The white men are an entity.
The progressives are an entity.

So ideologies are personified into entities and there is probably some evolutionary advantage for doing that since it’s better to assume the rustling leaves is a lion stalking us rather than just the wind.

Well, progressivism is a natural consequence of prosperity because when the desperate struggle for food and shelter is behind us, we can focus on other sources of pain and truth. So when life becomes too easy, people find new ways to complain: before, it was starving in the street, but now it’s having hurt feelings that’s the big deal.

Progressivism is as old as prosperity and generally precedes the fall of empires. Check out feminism and the fall of rome heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/12 … l-of-rome/ Look into the Weimar Republic (discounting WWI effects) and see the condition that enabled the rise of Hitler. Or just accept it as sensible if you need no convincing since strong values build strong societies which engender prosperity which causes people to question the continuing need for those strong values and that precedes the erosion of prosperity until it falls apart and someone rises from the debris once again with strong values to restart the cycle.

Yes, I see what you mean. If they can’t control the gov, then fine, they’ll control private industry and that’s even better because who can question Dick’s right to choose not to sell the AR15? Hey, private industry can do what it wants and not only are the conservatives forced to support their own disarming despite the cognitive dissonance of on one hand supporting freedom of their disarmers and on the other desiring to own guns, but they couldn’t do anything about it anyway since since private industry isn’t put up to a vote. Try arguing with a capitalist about declaring google a public utility and suddenly the “deplorables” are totally defending their enemy; it’s hilarious!

Btw, did you see: UC Berkeley: Saying “I’m Not Racist” Is Racist

academicaffairs.ucsc.edu/events … _11_12.pdf

Wth? How can anyone not be afraid to talk???

I never thought of it like that. Thanks!