a thread for mundane ironists

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8541

[b]John Cage

In an utter emptiness anything can take place.[/b]

Tell me that this isn’t a “world of words”.

The emotions - love, mirth, the heroic, wonder, tranquility, fear, anger, sorrow, disgust - are in the audience.

Right, like the music itself is incidental.

The highest purpose is to have no purpose at all. This puts one in accord with nature, in her manner of operation.

See, I told you. Again and again and again.

Now that we have everything we need, we discover that there is almost nothing that we have that we want.

Assuming of course that almost no one actually believes this.

A ‘mistake’ is beside the point, for once anything happens it authentically is.

Assuming of course [given human autonomy] that almost no one actually believes this.

I am trying to be unfamiliar with what I’m doing.

If only after years and years of practice.

8542

[b]Raymond Williams

Culture is one of the two or three most complicated words in the English language.[/b]

Another being identity.

To be truly radical is to make hope possible rather than despair inevitable.

That sure as shit leaves me out.

There are no masses; there are only ways of seeing people as masses.

Next up: there are no ruling classes.

The idea of nature contains, though often unnoticed, an extraordinary amount of human history.

You know, given the evolution of life on Earth. So far.

The human crisis is always a crisis of understanding: what we genuinely understand we can do.

He means can’t do of course.

It wasn’t idealism that made me, from the beginning, want a more secure and rational society. It was an intellectual judgment, to which I still hold. When I was young its name was socialism. We can be deflected by names. But the need was absolute, and is still absolute.

So, what do you call it?

8543

[b]Nein

It was the best of times. It was the worst of terms and conditions.[/b]

You know, if Dickens had written it today.

A gentle reminder that Monday does not need your love. Just your labor.

Unless, of course, like me, you’re retired. Then Monday is just one more day in an essentially meaningless existence.

I’m just here for the ruthless critique of all that exists.

So, is he Kidding?

The week is ending. But we regret to inform you that everything else is probably not.

You know, when this week is ending.

Bad news about tomorrow. It’s another day.

As in “just another goddamn day”.

Theory. Still my favorite conspiracy.

Your “world of words” or mine?

8544

[b]Antonio Gramsci

The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born; now is the time of monsters.[/b]

Of course today we have our own version of that. One, I suspect, that Gramsci could scarcely imagine.

Socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm Christianity. In the new order, Socialism will triumph by first capturing the culture via infiltration of schools, universities, churches and the media by transforming the consciousness of society.

So, what do you think, any day now?

What comes to pass does so not so much because a few people want it to happen, as because the mass of citizens abdicate their responsibility and let things be.

Like this makes any difference to the ruling class.

I’m a pessimist because of intelligence, but an optimist because of will.

Would he say that today? Can you?

The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum there arises a great diversity of morbid symptoms.

On the other hand, imagine his reaction to Trumpworld.

The challenge of modernity is to live without illusions and without becoming disillusioned.

The first part, sure.

8545

[b]Ottessa Moshfegh

Reva was like the pills I took. They turned everything, even hatred, even love, into fluff I could bat away.[/b]

Where’s my Reva, he grimaced.

Oh, sleep. Nothing else could ever bring me such pleasure, such freedom, the power to feel and move and think and imagine, safe from the miseries of my waking consciousness.

Sleep…and brandy.

I loved Reva, but I didn’t like her anymore.

Let’s finally explain this…condition.

Our repartee would be rich with subtlety and sarcasm, as smart and funny as midcareer Woody Allen. Our fucking, like Werner Herzog, serious and perplexing.

Repartee to kill for. And, sure, fucking too.

On a good day, every small thing is enchanting. Everything is a miracle. There is no emptiness. There is no need for forgiveness or escape or medicine. I hear only the wind in the trees, and my devils hatching their sacral plans, fusing all the shattered pieces together into a blanket of ice. I have found that it’s under that ice that I can feel I am just another normal person. In the dark and cold, I am at peace.

Next up: on a bad day.
Or week.

I feel very, very alone.
We’re all alone, Reva, I told her. It was true: I was, she was. This was the maximum comfort I could offer.

On the other hand, for some, alone works just fine.

8546

[b]Elena Epaneshnik

“Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.”
Was that the Rorschach Inkblot Test?[/b]

What about it, Don?

There’s one thing that’s impossible to get tired of – reading and re-reading Carl Sagan’s books.

Let me guess, Kid, you don’t agree.

The world’s biggest environmental problem is that there are only 5 oceans, 7 continents, and nearly 8 billion idiots.

Doesn’t leaving many of us excluded, does it?

That feeling when you know that there are plenty of amazing Russian scientists who are able to create a COVID-19 vaccine, yet you don’t believe a single word the Russian President says.

She means Vladimir Trump of course. Or is it Donald Putin?

If I could put August in an aerosol it’d smell of closed theatres, uselessness, dying neurones, decaying thoughts, rustling of the pages of an old book left by the window, Tarkovsky films’ silence, semi-sweet wine, and longing for autumn.

What would be in yours?

How many Americans does it take to change a light bulb in November and not screw up like in 2016?
Asking for humanity.

Let’s answer for Humanity.

8547

[b]Otto Weininger

But the higher a man mounts, the greater may be his fall; all genius is a conquering of chaos, mystery.[/b]

He means failure to conquer them of course.

Universality is the distinguishing mark of genius. There is no such thing as a special genius, a genius for mathematics, or for music, or even for chess, but only a universal genius. The genius is a man who knows everything without having learned it.

There are none in other words.

A creature that cannot grasp the mutual exclusiveness of A and not A has no difficulty in lying; more than that, such a creature has not even any consciousness of lying, being without a standard of truth.

I dare you to cite an example of this. You know, “in reality”.

Everything evil is revenge.

Wow, what a coincidence. So is everything good.

The great man of science, unless he is also a philosopher, deserves the title of genius as little as the man of action.

Let’s imagine we can make sense of this.

A man is first reverent about himself, and self-respect is the first stage in reverence for all things.

You know, until that pesky dasein thing kicks in.

8548

[b]Jeffrey Eugenides

Household objects lost meaning. A bedside clock became a hunk of molded plastic, telling something called time, in a world marking it’s passage for some reason.[/b]

Next up: car parts.

In Madeleine’s face was a stupidity Mitchell had never seen before. It was the stupidity of all normal people.

Let’s note the equivalent of that here.

She understood that her heart operated on its own instructions, that she had no control over it or, indeed, anything else.

Even I wouldn’t go that far. On most days.

My goal in life is to become an adjective.

Is that better or worse than an adverb?

No matter how long your’ve been at it, you always start from scratch.

Aside from being absurd, sure, why not.

I’d like to have a word for ‘the sadness inspired by failing restaurants’ as well as for 'the excitement of getting a room with a minibar.

Okay, but dasein is already taken.

8549

[b]Werner Twertzog

The enemy of my enemy is probably my enemy, also.[/b]

I know that mine [the objectivists] are. Or I’m doing something wrong.

Dear “America”: Your election is about to be stolen, as usual.

By the ruling class in other words. Only more so this time.

If the Academy grants me the lifetime achievement award, I shall send a cardboard figure of Marlon Brando to receive it.

Are they still making movies?

No, you will not see me in Hell. I have better plans for you.

Yo, Buddha!

Yes, Gloria Estefan, the rhythm is going to get us, if by rhythm you mean death, and bears.

Let’s deconstruct this. Then reconstruct it into something that I might actually understand.

Dear America: You also need intellectual contact tracers.

No, as a matter of fact, we don’t.

8550

[b]Silvia Moreno-Garcia

It’s no good telling tales without a drink.[/b]

The stiffer the better I’ve often found.

The future, she thought, could not be predicted, and the shape of things could not be divined. To think otherwise was absurd. But they were young that morning, and they could cling to hope. Hope that the world could be remade, kinder and sweeter.

Youth? Yeah, I remember that. Sort of.

You don’t get to rewind your life like a tape and splice it back together, pretending it never knotted and tore, when it did and you know it did.

Okay, but some don’t know that.

They were eternal, never changing, and yet they had changed.

And you’re still floored by it, aren’t you?

We say many things when we are young. Eventually, we grow wiser.

Our wiser of course, not theirs.

…a prank is not any less irritating because it is childish.

Let alone infantile.

8551

[b]Raven Leilani

…think of all the gods I have made out of feeble men.[/b]

And, one suspects, the other way around. Though, sure, maybe not.

I’m an open book, I say, thinking of all the men who have found it illegible.

Of course no one would ever read mine.

As a rule, I try to avoid popping that dusky cherry. I cannot be the first black girl a white man dates. I cannot endure the nervous renditions of backpacker rap, the conspicuous effort to be colloquial, or the smugness of pink men in kente cloth.

You know what they say about rules. But point taken.

Even with good men, you are always waiting for the surprise.

What do you think, “that’s life”?

But the beauty of disco is the too much, is the horn section and the cheese.

Next up: the Bee Gees.

And then I miscalculated. Too much anger shared too soon. Too much can you believe these white people. Too much fuck the police. We both graduated from the school of Twice as Good for Half as Much, but I’m sure she still finds this an acceptable price of admission. She still rearranges herself, waiting to be chosen. And she will be. Because it is an art—to be black and dogged and inoffensive. She is all these things and she is embarrassed that I am not.

Today of course at least double it.

8552

[b]Existential Comics

It’s amazing how many people want to go back in time and kill baby Hitler. Like, why not just teach him to not be antisemitic as a child? You know he learned that shit right? He didn’t have Jew-hating encoded into his DNA.[/b]

So, would you take that chance?

Humans are fucking weird. Like, some people will just spend their entire lives trying to swim 100 meters as fast as possible, and everyone else is like “Yes, normal. Good. I really admire your ambition.”

Next up: they scored another touchdown!

The Greeks really had the right idea about the Gods. If anything created this world it wasn’t an all knowing, perfectly good Being. It makes more sense that it would be a bunch of horny weirdos who fight for eternity over who is hottest and shit.

Let’s bring them back! Right, Jacob? Along with the stars.

The weirdest thing about some science people is that they have this strange idea that learning science will help you understand politics better than learning politics will.

Right, like politics can be learned at all.

[b]Work that is necessary for society to function:

  • doing housework
  • raising children
  • studying at school
  • organizing social events
    If you are doing this work and not getting paid, someone else is taking your money.[/b]

Let’s actually name them.

People talk about “rational debate” far too much, and “educated debate” far too little.
I have no interest in debating someone who doesn’t understand the subject at hand, no matter how “rational” they assure me they are.

Let’s resolve this confusion once and for all.

8553

[b]Akwaeke Emezi

Sometimes, you recognize truth because it destroys you for a bit.[/b]

And then the ones that rip you to shreds.

Understand this if you understand nothing: it is a powerful thing to be seen.

Or, here, heard? :laughing:

The world in my head has been far more real than the one outside—maybe that’s the exact definition of madness, come to think of it.

Or an inexact definition of a “condition”.

The first madness was that we were born, that they stuffed a god into a bag of skin.

They again. Let’s find them and run 'em out of Dodge.

But I’ve learned that you can’t force forever on the wrong people. They belong exactly where they are, giving exactly what they want to. I don’t ask for anything more. I figure I shouldn’t have to.

Let’s explain what this probably means.

We understood what was necessary—humans often fail at listening, as if their stubbornness will convince the truth to change, as if they have that kind of power.

Yo, Mr. Objectivist. Defend yourself.

8554

[b]Clarice Lispector

Do you ever suddenly find it strange to be yourself?[/b]

Me? What do you think?

It is because I dove into the abyss that I am beginning to love the abyss I am made of.

Me? What do you think?

The mystery of human destiny is that we are fated, but that we have the freedom to fulfill or not fulfill our fate…

Right, like that actually makes sense.

The only truth is that I live. Sincerely, I live. Who am I? Well, that’s a bit much.

I taught her that. In a previous life I’m guessing.

There it is, the sea, the most incomprehensible of non-human existences.

Next up: these things: youtu.be/K4IY3dIwZdI

‘I’ is merely one of the world’s instantaneous spasms.

If only up until the day “I” die. “You” too.

8555

[b]Existential Comics

List of major American event with one consequences:
Iraq War: wealth was transferred to the rich.
2008 Recession: wealth was transferred to the rich.
COVID-19 pandemic: wealth was transferred to the rich.
How is it that any crisis, under any leader, results in the same thing?[/b]

Indeed, Naomi Klein wrote an entire book about it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine

I really would say twitter is the worst website on earth, if it weren’t for the fact that I’ve been to other websites.

Let’s actually pin down the worst website on Earth. Or the second worst if you count Facebook.

The United States: steals land for the country, genocides the natives, industrializes on the backs of slaves.
Some dude on the TV: “this country was founded on the principle of liberty.”

Well, history is written by the winners.

The purpose of philosophy is to examine the underlying assumptions of our society. People who say philosophy is useless apparently think this work is finished, and what you see now is the ideologically perfect society.
I don’t know about you, but this seems a bit off to me.

Well, philosophy is written by the winners.

Pop quiz: 100 people live on an island and there are 100 houses, what’s the most efficient way to distribute them?
If you said “one house to each person”, you are an ignorant fool who doesn’t understand economics. The answer is “whatever makes the most profit for the landlords”.

I know, let these folks decide: ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop … 3&t=195888

according to postmodernism everything is exactly as true as everything else, except for communism, which is twice as true

I know, let these folks decide: ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop … 3&t=195888

8556

[b]Erich Maria Remarque

No soldier outlives a thousand chances. But every soldier believes in Chance and trusts his luck.[/b]

Having been a soldier myself, I guess I fit in there somewhere. If only as a 72B20, But in that hairy hole MACV in and around Song Be.

We want to live at any price; so we cannot burden ourselves with feelings which, though they might be ornamental enough in peace-time, would be out of place here.

I suspect this is aimed more at me than at you.

Why does a man live? In order to think about it.

I’ll bet you can take that too far though.

Heaven has no favorites.

Then what’s the point of it?

You may turn into an archangel, a fool, or a criminal—no one will see it. But when a button is missing—everyone sees that.

Or when you fly is down.

The wisest were just the poor and simple people. They knew the war to be a misfortune, whereas those who were better off, and should have been able to see more clearly what the consequences would be, were beside themselves with joy.

You know, all the way to the bank.

8557

[b]Robert Altman

Filmmaking is a chance to live many lifetimes.[/b]

Like one isn’t more than enough, he thought.

I never knew what I wanted, except that it was something I hadn’t seen before.

Of course some of us will never find it.

I’ll give you the same advice I give my children: Never take advice from anybody.

Consider it taken.

All of my films deal with the same thing: striving, socially and culturally, to stay alive.

And not just in Nashville.

What is an ending? There’s no such thing. Death is the only ending.

Tell me about it. You know, while you’ve still got the time.

Chance is another name that we give to our mistakes. And all of the best things in my films are mistakes.

What’s that make contingency and change then?

8558

[b]Doth

Waking up always raises an age-old dilemma: why[/b]

1] why not?
2] because

If you know someone who doesn’t have anxiety issues, that’s a demon. You’re friends with a demon.

Come on, who doesn’t have anxiety issues?

Hockey is a goth sport, it’s cold, you run on knives & usually there is blood. Welcome back.

Fuck all sports, he groused.

Take a moment to apologize to your body for your brain’s bullshit.

Unless of course you’re a determinist.

The Democratic Party should just openly say: “We hate progressives.”

And they definitely hate Goths. Republicans too.

Be the horrifying backstory of your family’s lineage

And then show up on a Dateline segment.

8559

[b]Caleb Carr

There’s plenty of stories that need telling what never get told, just because people can’t bear the listening.[/b]

And no, Mr. Objectivist, not just mine.
Though especially mine, right?

I believe half of a writer’s job is to, really, take you to another world and give you a view of things, information about another world that entertains you and informs you.

Or, sure, disturbs you.

…answers one gives to life’s crucial questions are never truly spontaneous; they are the embodiment of years of contextual experience, of the building of patterns in each of our lives that eventually grow to dominate our behavior.

Or the longer version: ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop … 1&t=194382

What we see depends mainly on what we look for.

And how dumb is that, right Kids?

They’ll want him to be mad, of course, Laszlo mused, not hearing me. The doctors here, the newspapers, the judges; they’d like to think that only a madman would shoot a five-year-old girl in the head. It creates certain … difficulties, if we are forced to accept that our society can produce sane men who commit such acts.

See, I told you.

Whatever I thought right seemed bad to others; whatever seemed wrong to me, others approved of. I ran into feuds wherever I found myself, I met disfavor wherever I went; if I longed for happiness, I only stirred up misery; so I had to be called “Woeful”: Woe is all I possess.

And then one day, for some, it possesses you. If only until the day you die.

8560

[b]John Cage

Try as we may to make a silence, we cannot.[/b]

Maybe when we’re dead.

There are some good people in it, but the orchestra as a whole is equivalent to a gang bent on destruction.

Uh, different folks, different strokes?

Beware of losing what isn’t in your head.

The part where I come in, he smirked.

Don’t try to create and analyze at the same time. They’re different processes.

Your posts more or less than mine?

A meal without mushrooms is like a day without rain.

What’s that makes mushrooms then.

One shouldn’t go to the woods looking for something, but rather to see what is there.

Let’s make that applicable to here.